Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By MikeE
#1712453
I was taught not to call final when an aircraft was still on the runway but to wait until it had taken off or vacated and thought this was a rule, but recent conversations suggest otherwise. I appreciate that the practical consequence of an aircraft on the runway is that I can't land anyway, but is there a rule or understanding about calling final in such circumstances? Grateful for the forum's views...
Best wishes
Mike
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By Genghis the Engineer
#1712455
" G-CD, Final to land, contact one on (the runway)".

That way you acknowledge being aware of the aeroplane there, and don't expect to go ahead and land (if, say, A/G) or to get a landing clearance (if controlled) until it is clear.

G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer on Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By CapnM
#1712457
I can't see why you wouldn't call final if you were on final under any circumstance. What if there's 2 others in the circuit - let's say one on downwind and one on base - and you've not called final? I know I've been in that position (on base, aircraft has called ahead of me all circuit and suddenly gone quiet) and start getting a little twitchy in my seat.

In your situation, I would just call final with "visual one ahead" or "contact one ahead", then make an appropriate decision when you're nearer the runway.
By matspart3
#1712461
Depends on the environment really. In a controlled (i.e. ATC) environment, calling final with traffic on the runway will trigger two more calls - 'Continue approach', which you then need to read back. Genghis' 'final, contact one on' suggestion is a useful compromise and may elicit a 'land after'.
By TopCat
#1712466
Genghis the Engineer wrote:" G-CD, Final to land, contact one on (the runway)".

You do hear this a lot, but strictly, isn't 'contact' CAP413-speak for actually contacting (by radio)? So possibly not the best word to use.

'Landing traffic in sight' is barely longer, and is what I usually use.

Obviously you can't actually land if the runway is occupied, but not even to call final sounds completely wrong to me. You're on final - what else would you call?

And not calling would be worse, as @CapnM says.
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By Genghis the Engineer
#1712467
Yes, "G-CD, Final Land, Visual one on" would be more technically correct; but both are well understood. I suspect that I tend, slightly sloppily, to use the two words interchangeably myself - but it's a good point-out.

I absolutely agree that not calling anything is the worst thing to do.

G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer on Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By chevvron
#1712472
flybymike wrote:“Land after” may be given by ATC with another aircraft still on the runway subject to certain conditions.

One condition is that the aircraft on the runway is also landing, not departing.
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By Irv Lee
#1712473
I wonder why they haven't changed 'land after' to 'land behind' like they have changed the conditions clearance when lining up. If I had English level 4, and was told to land after a given point on the runway like say the numbers, I would land beyond the numbers. If told to land after the C172, would I land behind it or beyond it?
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By chevvron
#1712475
MikeE wrote:I was taught not to call final when an aircraft was still on the runway but to wait until it had taken off or vacated and thought this was a rule, but recent conversations suggest otherwise. I appreciate that the practical consequence of an aircraft on the runway is that I can't land anyway, but is there a rule or understanding about calling final in such circumstances? Grateful for the forum's views...
Best wishes
Mike

One day, a C152 was landing ahead of a PA28. The PA28 reported final before the C152 actually touched down.
I pressed the mic button intending to say 'the runway is occupied' (which is all a FISO can say; 'continue approach' being an instruction) just as the C152 cartwheeled as the nosewheel leg failed and instead said 'bl00dy hell' with the mic still open!!
If MikeE learned to fly at a busy airfield with mixed IFR/VFR traffic, it's possible the ATC unit had asked the club not to report final in these circumstances to avoid RTF congestion, but at most airfields as others have said, it's best to make the call to indicate to the one on the runway the situation and most pilots will show good airmanship by expediting in this circumstance.
By Balliol
#1712479
Personally [and not having a dig at anyone] I don't think trying to second guess the situation / controllers decision making or add in superfluous wording is a good plan. When in the appropriate position succinctly call Final and let ATC plan/respond accordingly. If that is a continue, fair enough, that is what the process is there for. Delaying calls is even worse and will compromise situational awareness of other cct traffic.
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By Talkdownman
#1712480
MikeE wrote:I was taught not to call final when an aircraft was still on the runway but to wait until it had taken off or vacated

Utter madness. 'Final' is a POSITION Report. Same as is 'Downwind' (and that position REPORT is when abeam the upwind numbers). Such position reports are for EVERYBODY'S situational awareness. Omit them at your peril. If the R/T channel is free, avoid delaying reports.
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By segillum
#1712484
>" G-CD, Final to land, contact one on (the runway)".<

I seem to recall being taught many moons ago that "Visual" is the word to use rather than "Contact". The latter implies that you're a receiver in contact with a tanker :-)
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