Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1711769
I’m planning a flight from strip near Barton routing south east. Now of course I’m planning to fly west into the low level and then turn south east at the bottom of the corridor. A transit of the the Manchester Zone would be helpful but only if it were granted quickly, halfway down the LLR and it wouldn’t be worth the extra workload for either me or the ATCO.

So my question is - is there anything I can do to make it more likely I can get the transit. For example:

1. Telephone them beforehand?
2. Contact them on the radio on the ground to announce my departure maybe get a squawk ?
3 Anything else?
#1711771
there anything I can do to make it more likely I can get the transit.


It depends.

Flight priorities are defined in a CAP document (can’t remember which one) such that if you’re in an ambulance or police flight, you’ll go right to the top...

Somewhere down that list you have the inbound flights where you and I will be paying fees to land. They won’t be asking you to remain outside for that long if so. Just be very careful of handling agent fees which can be ridiculous.

Then you also have flights that involve some scientific, filming or surveying work which really require access. Those are pre-notified and filed through the ATSU’s non-standard flight portal.

Then if you are flying IFR and have filed a flight plan with route validated with Eurocontrol, there are minimum overflight levels inside the CTA or TMA in order for you to be accepted.

But if you just want a low level VFR/IFR transit at little notice and you want to maximise your chances, I’d say:

- You can look for a quieter period on the airline schedule on the airport’s website. Note that any airport’s GA movements won’t show up there. Less flights mean the radio won’t sound like a machine gun when you tune in.
- A better weather day certainly helps, and not one with fog and thunderstorms and hail moving around the place.
- Don’t call up right outside the airspace boundary but do so several miles from it. Otherwise you may have to hold outside or risk an infringement. Controllers need some time to arrange for the transit to happen.
- Some electronic flight strip systems have a horrible user interface to input popup flight details over the radio. Filing a flight plan or telephone call before takeoff can help with the strip being earlier prepared. It’s not a guarantee of acceptance of clearance though.
- Flights crossing perpendicular to a runway would often be easier because you’re minimising your time in conflict with the landing and departing traffic.

Anyway, you can get more information from the unit concerned. The number is in the AIP.

And always have a plan B to route around in case it is refused.

Enjoy!
steviem liked this
#1711825
Cub wrote:Even in the Cub I recon getting to Congleton could only be 6 minutes longer and about 12 miles more. Are you that desperate?


Who said anything about desperate?. I'm curious and trying to educate myself further hence the title of my post "request for advice" on this miserable non flying Saturday.

Some may think my question was a stupid one. Personally in my training business I don't believe in the concept of stupid questions because no student should ever be discouraged from asking questions. Of course on fora such as this there is always the option to not respond.
T67M, Danny, idlelayabout and 3 others liked this
#1711864
In practical terms, if Manchester are landing on easterlies, you have very little chance of getting clearance into the zone until you are well south of the centreline of the southerly runway. But by this time, it is probably of little value to your trip.
If they are on westerlies, you have a slightly better chance. But still difficult.

If it is really important for you to do this, then you could perhaps phone the Manchester ATC supervisor, explain you problem and ask him what route he can offer.
steviem liked this
#1711873
Call early with intentions.

Offer to go IFR if you and the aeroplane are capable, as if you can be guaranteed to stick to a single altitude you're a lot easier for them to control and slot in. Also offer "any altitude below 6000" or similar to give them options for how to integrate you.

And sound as professional and punchy as possible on the RT. Controllers give more to pilots who sound professional.

G
steviem liked this
#1711885
Genghis the Engineer wrote:Offer to go IFR if you and the aeroplane are capable, as if you can be guaranteed to stick to a single altitude you're a lot easier for them to control and slot in. Also offer "any altitude below 6000" or similar to give them options for how to integrate you.

The Manchester TMA starts at 3500’ altitude, so I would be cautious about asking for an IFR clearance unless you are qualified to climb into Class A airspace.
#1711893
pullup wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned this...
https://www.nats.aero/news/nats-launche ... on-pilots/
Or isn't it used any more?

It's intended for the NATS CTRs/As in the London area, not Manchester.
Last edited by GrahamB on Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
steviem liked this
#1711894
GrahamB wrote:
Genghis the Engineer wrote:Offer to go IFR if you and the aeroplane are capable, as if you can be guaranteed to stick to a single altitude you're a lot easier for them to control and slot in. Also offer "any altitude below 6000" or similar to give them options for how to integrate you.

The Manchester TMA starts at 3500’ altitude, so I would be cautious about asking for an IFR clearance unless you are qualified to climb into Class A airspace.


Fair point, but "Can accept an IFR clearance outside class A" is a straightforward offer.

G