Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By Stampe
#1712295
I dropped into County Fire at Rochester Airport this morning they are about to start selling the 1 kg extinguishers using the agent FE36 ( not 35 as previous) branded as Avi-Ex cost £170 nil VAT which includes a bracket suitable for light aircraft use.The governor there is a current PPL and the product is about a third of the current price of an equivalent BCF/Halon extinguisher.
Regards Stampe
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By Marvin
#1712308
Stampe wrote:I dropped into County Fire at Rochester Airport this morning they are about to start selling the 1 kg extinguishers using the agent FE36 ( not 35 as previous) branded as Avi-Ex cost £170 nil VAT which includes a bracket suitable for light aircraft use.The governor there is a current PPL and the product is about a third of the current price of an equivalent BCF/Halon extinguisher.
Regards Stampe


I did a little internet research on FE36 and came across this:

FE-36 and Hydrogen Fluoride
When combusted, under certain conditions, FE-36 can produce hydrogen fluoride (HF). Whilst this gas is generally produced in small quantities, and the gas itself boils just below room temperature, you should make sure that after a fire, the area is fully ventilated before staff return.
You should also avoid breathing in any fumes from an FE-36 extinguisher treated fire, as on contact with moisture, including human tissue, hydrogen fluoride converts to hydrofluoric acid. This acid is highly toxic and corrosive.


given the confined cockpit is this significant?

The smoke fumes, gases and fire in the cockpit are significant factor anyway and no doubt so is the discharge from a dry powder extinguisher which I've seen in many EASA and non-EASA aircraft.

It would seem that what ever we use there are downsides and these are probable less significant than the fire itself.
By riverrock
#1712315
its the same with Halon - the original smoke is much more harmful than the small number of other gases which can be released as the chemical reaction takes place to smother the flames.

@Stampe - do you know how effective the FE36 product will be compared to the equivalent Halon size?
For fixed automated systems, I've seen reports that you need to have a canister of FE36 up to twice the size to be as effective as Halon (but it seems to vary considerably by manufacturer).
By Stampe
#1712324
Sorry RR I am just an interested observer my current Robin has a 0.7kg Halon that appears in good health and passing its annual inspection.The team at County Fire seem confident FE36 is as capable as Halon for much less cost,They appear to have done a lot of research and I a lot of local owners are buying the product.However I am nothing to do with them so I suggest giving them a call at Rochester they have produced pamphlets but I do not post pictures here and would no doubt tread on one of the many protocol mines littered around this particular forum if I did.I flew professionally for many years With Halon extinguishers and always felt they were good to have so a similarly capable product without environmental concerns has to be good.The police are hardly likely to be using a dangerous product on their fellow riot squad members!
By riverrock
#1712326
No probs - I'm not ready for a replacement yet either.
My worry is that someone will buy a FE36 (DuPont) or Novec 1230 (3M) based system but not upscale it appropriately. I understand they are about 70% as effective as Halon - but as I say, the companies don't seem to publish standard comparisons. I guess its hard to advertise something as a replacement that isn't as effective as the original (even if it doesn't kill to Ozone layer).
By Brooklands
#1712444
Marvin wrote:
Stampe wrote:I dropped into County Fire at Rochester Airport this morning they are about to start selling the 1 kg extinguishers using the agent FE36 ( not 35 as previous) branded as Avi-Ex cost £170 nil VAT which includes a bracket suitable for light aircraft use.The governor there is a current PPL and the product is about a third of the current price of an equivalent BCF/Halon extinguisher.
Regards Stampe


I did a little internet research on FE36 and came across this:

FE-36 and Hydrogen Fluoride
When combusted, under certain conditions, FE-36 can produce hydrogen fluoride (HF). Whilst this gas is generally produced in small quantities, and the gas itself boils just below room temperature, you should make sure that after a fire, the area is fully ventilated before staff return.
You should also avoid breathing in any fumes from an FE-36 extinguisher treated fire, as on contact with moisture, including human tissue, hydrogen fluoride converts to hydrofluoric acid. This acid is highly toxic and corrosive.
.


Hydrogen Fluoride/Hydroflouric acid is extremely unpleasant stuff, unlike other acids it can penetrate the skin so you can't wash it off. Wikipedia article here.

Here's an extract from the Health and Safety section:
Code: Select allIn addition to being a highly corrosive liquid, hydrofluoric acid is also a powerful contact poison. Because of the ability of hydrofluoric acid to penetrate tissue, poisoning can occur readily through exposure of skin or eyes, or when inhaled or swallowed. Symptoms of exposure to hydrofluoric acid may not be immediately evident, and this can provide false reassurance to victims, causing them to delay medical treatment.[22] Despite having an irritating odor, HF may reach dangerous levels without an obvious odor.[18] HF interferes with nerve function, meaning that burns may not initially be painful. Accidental exposures can go unnoticed, delaying treatment and increasing the extent and seriousness of the injury.[22] Symptoms of HF exposure include irritation of the eyes, skin, nose, and throat, eye and skin burns, rhinitis, bronchitis, pulmonary edema (fluid buildup in the lungs), and bone damage


Brooklands
I knew that the Chemistry degree would come in userful one day
By cockney steve
#1712486
^^^^^ This deadly acid is also present on burnt-out cars, particularly rubber brake hoses which decompose into a jelly-like state. Very nasty and many a breaker's yard, recovery-crew and firefighters found out the hard way. :shock:
By User72
#1712805
If I may, you are (nearly) all missing the point. In a Permit aircraft a fire extinguisher is not required and is potentially more dangerous as a loose article bouncing around the cockpit that it is useful in fighting a fire. I don't have one in my aircraft.

The calculation is about understanding the risks and how they can be mitigated. By using ETFE wire the risk of noxious gas from electrical fires is greatly reduced. By ensuring the maintenance is carried out to a high standard the risk of fire is reduced. Yes a fire is always a possibility, but in my aircraft is is not easy to install an extinguisher in a place that is both easily reached while strapped in and also unlikely to be knocked and inadvertently released to become a 1.5kg missile bouncing around the cockpit.

What is in the extinguisher is not material, the discussion should be whether to have one or not!
By riverrock
#1712811
That is a different decision.

Chances are if there is an electrical fire in the cockpit there will be smoke or an obvious smell and you'll cut the electrics which will stop the fire. The extinguisher is perhaps more likely to be used on an intake fire after over priming on the ground, perhaps saving your aircraft but to me it needs to be safe to use in a cockpit if its going to be in there. I wouldn't want dry powder, water and foam wont work on electricals and halon is being phased out.
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By Dodo
#1729444
Bump.

There was a favourable article about these in the November LAA magazine, and I thought I would buy one but the company website https://avi-ex.co.uk/ doesn't work nor have they answered my email trying to order one. (It's been 10 days now).

Has anyone on the forum managed to buy one yet?
By Stampe
#1729491
I Know several aircraft that have just had them fitted a Robin and an Emeraude. I see the owner frequently on visits to Rochester I will let him know your difficulties.
REGARds
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By Dodo
#1732514
As an update the Avi-EX site is now up and running.
I have ordered one of the extinguishers but hope never to need to use it!