Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1710651
TheFarmer wrote:
flybymike wrote:
Stevie mate . :D
You know what's gonna happen now don''t you....

Plenty of new customers for the infringement courses?


Cub will be rubbing his hands together!!


Okay, i’ll bite. Why would I possibly be rubbing my hands together?

As far as I can see, the thread is talking about possible disruption to GPS signals and does not represent any restriction to flight or change in airspace status, unless you count the Range itself.
Last edited by Cub on Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ben K liked this
#1710655
I seem to recall similar Notams in other years - can't say I've ever noticed any issues around the Gloucestershire / Brecon area while the tests were in progress. Maybe the jamming is more directional in practice than the Notam implies ?
#1710657
Never seen any issues, unlike other more fruity parts of the world where GPS jamming is continuous, effective, and the perpetrators don’t bother putting out a NOTAM.
#1710664
Chris Martyr wrote:
steviem wrote: Crews should be aware of these limitations and use alternate means of nav. quote]

Stevie mate . :D
You know what's gonna happen now don''t you....

.........FIGHT..!... :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I did worry about that to be honest. Been quite civil this far (almost). How refreshing :D
#1710665
patowalker wrote:What's all the fuss about? These tests are NOTAMed, usually last up to 2 minutes at a maximum of 5 times per hour and are conducted in good visibilty on weekdays.


Do you have a source for the 2 mins / 5 times an hour? Nothing about that in the documents I’ve seen.
flybymike liked this
#1710669
The worry about jamming is that it can take the form of "denial of service" - so you can't get a fix, which is easily recognised, but could also take the form of spoofing, where altered signals make you think you are somewhere else. This is much more dangerous, as considerably harder to detect. A ground based jammer can produce much stronger signals than satellites so the real signal gets lost and you triangulate based on the spoof.
#1710670
steviem wrote:
patowalker wrote:What's all the fuss about? These tests are NOTAMed, usually last up to 2 minutes at a maximum of 5 times per hour and are conducted in good visibilty on weekdays.


Do you have a source for the 2 mins / 5 times an hour? Nothing about that in the documents I’ve seen.

Also, that would presumably stop a GPS device from getting a "lock" during that time, and some certified devices can take at least 5 min to regain a lock.
flybymike liked this
#1710681
I thin’ it is both unreasonable and unsafe to simply say they will jam GPS “anytime between 09-16 on any day between 5th-26th August”. This makes it virtually impossible for GPS users to a) positively confirm that the problems they are experiencing, are caused by the jamming, b) know how little no it will last, or c) to plan actions to mitigate the effects of the jamming.

They really should publish something like “ Jamming trials will take place between 09.55 - 10.05 on date ......
.And between 14.15 - 1425 on date .....
with this info, Pilots and other GPS users can take appropriate mitigation steps. Perhaps stay the on the ground, perhaps, plan so that they don’t have to do a GNSS approach to minimums during the notified periods.
A le Ron, Jonzarno liked this
#1710711
Irv Lee wrote:Is this a good time to say I'm looking at an autumn/winter programme for my Masterclasses? Far more than just infringements (and cheaper than infringing) but in the nav tips module look at GPS/TradNav integration including seamless transition 'if the ipad overheats and shuts down' (just like mine did the other week, but 'works' for GPS jams or power exhaustion too). I seem to have 5 interested around Wilts/Dorset (I am told) and possibly the same somewhere in the Goodwood-Shoreham-Redhill triangle



I might be interested, Cost? (dependent on numbers I assume, but a rough estimate)
#1710724
steviem wrote:
patowalker wrote:What's all the fuss about? These tests are NOTAMed, usually last up to 2 minutes at a maximum of 5 times per hour and are conducted in good visibilty on weekdays.


Do you have a source for the 2 mins / 5 times an hour? Nothing about that in the documents I’ve seen.


You'd have to search for past NOTAM, but a previous trial is mentioned here.

Jamming covers 433-915 MHz and 2.4-5.8 GHz. It could last up to 2 minutes at a maximum of 5-times per hour between 0900 and 2100 UTC.  The last day of the trial is 10 March 2019.
#1710730
Cub wrote:
TheFarmer wrote:
flybymike wrote:Plenty of new customers for the infringement courses?


Cub will be rubbing his hands together!!


Okay, i’ll bite. Why would I possibly be rubbing my hands together?

As far as I can see, the thread is talking about possible disruption to GPS signals and does not represent any restriction to flight or change in airspace status, unless you count the Range itself.


I think he's referring to the number of poor sods that may end up on Infringement courses or suspended due to over reliance on the tablet based navigation systems the CAA were recommending.
#1710731
Yes.

The elephant in the room here is that it’s ridiculous that we have become so reliant on something that can just be switched off, and we have always known this to be the case.

There are pilots out there (and I refuse to be convinced otherwise) who do simply turn on their tablet, create a magenta line whilst waiting for their engine to warm up, and go and fly.

This thread is a stark reminder why the whole ‘an electronic chart is sufficient to remain legal’ argument is totally flawed. It’s irresponsible and poor airmanship.

The last thing GA needs right now is a batch of millennial qualified PPL’s (who think the chart is simply for shading their iPad) perform a perfectly synchronised batch of major airspace busts because they couldn’t navigate without their beloved SkyDemon.