Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By gaznav
#1710417
I’ve just seen this map of FLARM users in the UK and Europe. If you ever wondered whether it is worthwhile getting some form of direct FLARM detection capability then this it...
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By GrahamB
#1710419
I disagree.

ADSB is the universal standard, and it’s now feasible for any airborne device from drone to A380 to transmit it at proportionate cost, low weight and low power consumption.

Gliders should make themselves conspicuous on the universal standard, not expect others to have to detect their niche protocol.
gaznav, Peter Mundy, FrankS and 5 others liked this
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By gaznav
#1710420
GrahamB wrote:I disagree.

ADSB is the universal standard, and it’s now feasible for any airborne device from drone to A380 to transmit it at proportionate cost, low weight and low power consumption.

Gliders should make themselves conspicuous on the universal standard, not expect others to have to detect their niche protocol.


I agree Graham, but if I was flying through Europe, where FLARM is mandated for gliders in France and strongly encouraged in others, then at the moment I would want something that directly detects FLARM as well as ADS-B. PowerFLARM or SkyEcho 2 would be my choice. :thumright:
By patowalker
#1710433
FLARM is mandated for gliders in France and strongly encouraged in others,


by an association for its members, not the aviation authorities.

The Executive Committee of the FFVV of May 12, 2012 has unanimously decided to mandate the carriage ofFlarm type equipment in all aircraft used by affiliated clubs and also those of private owners associated with the FFVV. Gliders (classic, collectibles, aerobatic, micro-light type) powered sailplanes, all types of tugs (certified CNSK, CNRA, collection, ULM). Also, the FFVV strongly encourages other entities to equip.



In the UK.
https://members.gliding.co.uk/bga-safet ... t/lookout/
Last edited by patowalker on Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
#1710442
I'd rather go with an international standard than a country or region specific one - do you really want to be pulling a different gadget out when you cross an FIR boundary, and then having to select which gadgets you need for a tour?

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ADS-B seems to work fine - this is from just a 50 buck stratux with a forward facing antenna being displayed on SD
Peter Mundy, gaznav liked this
#1710449
Nick wrote:Power Flarm, shows gliders, your position to gliders and ADS-B in. Connect your Power Flarm to your ES Transponder and that will give you ADS-B out. That is what I have gone for and with that I should be visible. And no need to hope that I am in range of a re-broadcast station.

Nick


Connected to a V3+ dedicated display ?
A dedicated display not on a cluttered Nav screen and no yearly subscription. :D
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#1710459
A nicer priced alternative would be SkyEcho2 with the promised but now seemingly quietly being dropped without announcement Flarmbridge from Uavionix.
Flarmbridge connected to a V3+ would have been a good alternative. :(
By GAFlyer4Fun
#1710460
Referring to the first pic in this thread, since when did half the wingspan of a glider be equivalent to the distance between Dover and Calais? :lol:

If cant see a glider that big then should have gone to Specsavers :clown:

Similarly in the SD screenshot, the traffic is bigger than the runway lengths.... so even that makes the world appear more congested than it really is.

I wonder what the map would look like if it showed cars during rush "hour" with the cars displayed to the same scale proportion as these aircraft. Now that would look congested! :wink:
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By PaulSS
#1710472
@GrahamB
Gliders should make themselves conspicuous on the universal standard, not expect others to have to detect their niche protocol.


I do agree with the fact that gliders should get ADSB Out, instead of everyone else having to conform with their kit but they will argue the toss that it increases expense, weight and complexity for them. The other snag is that ADSB doesn't give them any collision avoidance guidance, whereas Flarm does and I can see why that is important to them when there's 3 000 of the buggers whizzing around in a circle.

I suppose the most elegant solution is for their Flarm gear to pump out ADSB as well.
By dewidaniels
#1710592
PaulSS wrote:@GrahamB
Gliders should make themselves conspicuous on the universal standard, not expect others to have to detect their niche protocol.


I do agree with the fact that gliders should get ADSB Out, instead of everyone else having to conform with their kit but they will argue the toss that it increases expense, weight and complexity for them. The other snag is that ADSB doesn't give them any collision avoidance guidance, whereas Flarm does and I can see why that is important to them when there's 3 000 of the buggers whizzing around in a circle.

I suppose the most elegant solution is for their Flarm gear to pump out ADSB as well.


FLARM has been around since 2004 and is fitted to a very high percentage of gliders in the UK and the rest of Europe. Affordable, low-power ADS-B out in the form of CAP1391 has only been around since 2018, so it'll take a while for it to become widely adopted.

FLARM does offer a unique collision avoidance capability for gliders, so I think that ADS-B will supplement, rather than replace, FLARM for the time being. It would be very nice if FLARM were to transmit CAP1391 ADS-B out, but CAP1391 is currently limited to the UK, so FLARM probably don't see that as a high priority.

I have both FLARM and a SkyEcho 2 fitted to my glider.
GrahamB, Flyin'Dutch', Nick and 2 others liked this
By dewidaniels
#1710594
Shoestring Flyer wrote:A nicer priced alternative would be SkyEcho2 with the promised but now seemingly quietly being dropped without announcement Flarmbridge from Uavionix.
Flarmbridge connected to a V3+ would have been a good alternative. :(


A V3+ FLARM Display won't work with a SkyEcho 2, will it? You could use a FLARM splitter to drive the V3+ directly from the FLARM, but you won't see any ADS-B traffic on the V3+ display unless you have a PowerFLARM that receives ADS-B.

Electronic conspicuity is such a minefield!

edit: Looking at the SkyEcho web page, you wouldn't need a FLARM splitter to connect the V3+ display to your FLARM (you just plug the display into the FLARMbridge), but I think you'd only see FLARM traffic on the V3+ display.
Last edited by dewidaniels on Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Dave W
#1710598
Not great for glider people with an existing FLARM investment. However, the other way round works, though: A £30 inc. VAT annual subscription to FLARM via SkyDemon allows glider traffic to be displayed from SkyEcho2.
gaznav liked this
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