Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Gertie
#1699412
Nurses: working through hospital discharge checklist

Me: "Of course, wot pilots don't tell their passengers is that every line in the checklist is written in blood."

Nurses: look puzzled; I had to explain.

Then they said oh yes, the medical profession has learned quite a lot from aviation. But I do wonder whether the above was missing from their training.
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By T67M
#1699470
When flying as a CRI, I often encourage the pilot I'm flying with to ditch the "do list" and try using it as a "check list". Invariably I end up with a pilot who is both more confident and, importantly, more competent.
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By CloudHound
#1699480
Part of the team of instructors that trained me in the 1970s were ex-RAF wartime pilots who equipped me with a standard way of ensuring any single engine non-complex light a/c was ready to take off.

It has stood me in good stead these 40+ years and I'll happily share it (though I'm sure it contains no surprises)

The emergency procedures for engine failure and fire used to be similarly embedded though I'm happy to admit brain fade on those.

Interestingly enough the ex-WGAF instructor had the same methodology.
By malcolmfrost
#1699481
T67M wrote:When flying as a CRI, I often encourage the pilot I'm flying with to ditch the "do list" and try using it as a "check list". Invariably I end up with a pilot who is both more confident and, importantly, more competent.

That's the Boeing way, you do a "procedure", ie Pre Flight, then check it using the checklist.
By Chris Martyr
#1699510
IMHO, the term checklist is a bit of a generalisation really .

My own aircraft was built by me from plans and has no published checklist . I am quite happy with that and follow a pretty comprehensive post flight procedure and also a pretty good pre-flt. procedure the next time I fly her . I am also her only pilot .

If flying a flight school aircraft for a BFR for example , I feel that I can also get it into the air safely without the use of a checklist . But have to say that if the check instructor wishes I use one , then I totally respect that as well .

When checklists really come into their own is once you get away from the SEP , fixed-gear , fixed pitch prop environment . In the airline that I work , the guys ALL do exactly the same pre-flt procedure . Not only pre-flt . but also taxi , take-off , crz , landing , shut-down,,,,,,

Some years back , I was talking to a delightful old boy in Corona Ca. who was building a Pietenpol. He finished his career on JT-9 powered B.747's , but prior to that was on Constellations. His words : "A Connie is a checklist aircraft , if you don't use one it'll f*****g kill ya ".

It's all about context .
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By johnm
#1699512
I’m a religious user of checklists and find them really useful
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By riverrock
#1699534
I have never used a checklist.
Club I learnt at has instructors including ex RAF test pilot and a BA captain.
If you blindly follow a script you don't need to know what the story is about, so are less likely able to cope when something isn't right.
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By alexbrett2
#1699583
A good checklist is not a script, it is just an aid to ensure things aren't forgotten. As noted above it should in most cases be a *check* not a *do*, so it shouldn't be a case of not understanding why you're doing things / blindly following them.

Obviously you get bad checklists that are overly explicit, but that doesn't mean the overall principal is wrong.

It's been mentioned already but The Checklist Manifesto is a really interesting read about how a checklist was introduced to the world of surgery by the WHO and the benefits it had (despite a lot of initial reluctance from surgeons etc on the basis that they are experts and didn't think they needed silly things like checklists...)
By riverrock
#1699600
alexbrett2 wrote:A good checklist is not a script, it is just an aid to ensure things aren't forgotten.

Perhaps I've never seen a "good" checklist then for a SEP. Which things would you leave off a "do list" to let it become a "good" checklist?
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By T67M
#1699629
Have a look at the checklists from CheckMate Aviation in the USA - a single side checklist, with a universal version suitable for most aircraft, and aircraft specific ones if you want extras like reminders of V-speeds etc.
By riverrock
#1699631
Looking only the small image in that sales link it looks like a "do list" to me.
Image

From the article above:
A typical Boeing 737 before take off checklist consists of seven read-out items while the Boeing 767 has only four.

That general "GA Fixed wing" checklist appears to have at least 13 (although its partially hidden by the advert banner). Its not a checklist - its a script, a set of instructions.
I'd argue it would be just as easy, if not easier, to skip a line on that list of instructions compared to using a flow / scan based pattern and a few mnemonics for vital actions.
By Chris Martyr
#1699650
alexbrett2 wrote: a checklist was introduced to the world of surgery by the WHO


Item 1. Take guitar and smash 'Moonies' drums all over the stage .

Item 2. Use what's left of guitar to bash amp. to smithereens.

Item 3. Assist Rog. in beating any oiks up who've got past Security .


Serious business is rock n roll you know .... :D
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