Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1699530
The whole saga is simply appalling.

I started the CAP1122 application process for GNSS approaches at Sywell over 4 years ago and they still have not been approved.

I left Sywell earlier this year but sadly I think I will finish my next role ( not yet found or started) before the roll out of a single approach under CAP1122 is finalised.

In the USA there are thousands of GNSS approaches, hundreds in Europe and a handful in the U.K.

So much for being a world leader in global aviation.....

Pipster

P.S. Many very talented and knowledgable people have spent considerable time, effort and significant sums of money trying to progress these initiatives, lack of progress on behalf of the applicants is not for want of trying.
idlelayabout, johnm, Lockhaven and 4 others liked this
#1699591
I think the whole CAP1122 situation highlights how we are still in the 1950s when it comes to CAA decision making, especially in Airspace and ATC departments. I realise the USA is streets ahead of us, and a lot bigger, but how is it OK (and apparently safe) to fly into some of the USAs biggest airports in a Cessna, yet if I want a transit of Class D across the top of an airport in the UK, the answer is no, 99% of the time, unless we pre-notify by internet!!!!.. Too risky to let us GA pilots mix it with the big boys...

Once we ditch the quill and parchment decision making system the CAA uses, we will progress. In the meantime, flying light GA in Europe & USA seems to be a lot easier..
Katamarino liked this
#1699606
So what needs to change (within the CAA)? Surely they can see what is happening in other countries (especially EASA countries) as they have the same overarching regulator?
#1699615
I listened to Mark Swann a year or to ago at a Duxford presentation day. He came over as very negative and Luddite on all topics Airspace wise.
Re the lack of GPS approaches in UK. When questioned about other Countries methods ie USA/Aus., he said "that's not the way we do things in the UK." For safety reasons he opined that as GPS is an Instrument Approach, full ATC was a requirement until touchdown. A safety case could never be made for Air Ground/Fiso ops.
Doesn't look as anything has changed since then.
Katamarino liked this
#1699618
Oldfart wrote:I listened to Mark Swann a year or to ago at a Duxford presentation day. He came over as very negative and Luddite on all topics Airspace wise.
Re the lack of GPS approaches in UK. When questioned about other Countries methods ie USA/Aus., he said "that's not the way we do things in the UK." For safety reasons he opined that as GPS is an Instrument Approach, full ATC was a requirement until touchdown. A safety case could never be made for Air Ground/Fiso ops.
Doesn't look as anything has changed since then.


It’s called protecting your own a@se, jobs worth.
Katamarino liked this
#1699621
He came over as very negative and Luddite on all topics Airspace wise.


So what's he good at and why is he liked in so many circles?
#1699623
riverrock wrote:
Oldfart wrote:full ATC was a requirement until touchdown. A safety case could never be made for Air Ground/Fiso ops.
Doesn't look as anything has changed since then.

Unless you are scheduled traffic into some of the remote highlands airports.


And all the airports around the world using LPV approaches without full ATC, as I said above, jobs worth of the first order, should be fired with immediate effect and lose all pension rights.
Katamarino liked this
#1699627
riverrock wrote:
Oldfart wrote:full ATC was a requirement until touchdown. A safety case could never be made for Air Ground/Fiso ops.
Doesn't look as anything has changed since then.

Unless you are scheduled traffic into some of the remote highlands airports.
Not just scheduled traffic. It's any operator approved by HIAL.
riverrock liked this
#1699717
I'm in Florida at the moment - this state alone must have in excess of a thousand GPS approaches, in addition to VOR, ILS, and the very occasional NDB approach.

The requirement for ATC cover is met often by an airport many miles away (for example, as I happen to be very familiar with it right now, you can fly a GPS approach to KCGC Crystal River, choice of two runways and a hold, with three join points per approach) controlled by Jacksonville Centre 100nm away; that is the equivalent of my flying a GPS approach to Cranfield whilst being controlled by Manchester. Costs are borne from central taxation, a whole state's worth of IAPs can be bought published by the FAA for $12: updated every few months, or downloaded for free (so basically not beholden to incredibly expensive commercial information providers like Jep), the charts broadly the same. It can be done at night using Pilot Controlled Lighting. I've no idea what the insurance issues are, but if the most litigious country in the world can solve them, I'm sure that the UK could too. Pilots wanting to practice are not paying the equivalent of £15-£20 per go either in "capitalist" USA.

Also in the UK, a great many people are still being trained for IR(R) or IR with NDB approaches as the baseline.

Yes, I agree, the UK is in the dark ages with regard to GPS approaches, as it is in most aspects of being able to routinely use small aeroplanes for transport. Other countries are doing far more, far better, far cheaper.

G
T67M, Lockhaven, johnm and 5 others liked this
#1699740
that is the equivalent of my flying a GPS approach to Cranfield whilst being controlled by Manchester.


It shows how publically owned airports and one ANSP is far more joined up and organised than the privatised for-profit plethora of ANSPs & aerodromes we have here, who hold a monopoly over a given area, have little incentive to provide much of a service to their own customers let alone their “competitors”, unless they are paid “enough”.

While I stop short in calling for re-nationalisation, the transport system here needs better regulation and incentives to function as a better, more accessible, more joined up, network.
Lockhaven, johnm, Katamarino and 3 others liked this