Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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#1698021
with a wet-behind-the-ears instructor (can you be a flying instructor at the age of 14?) trying to tell me to rotate at the correct speed.


This was the first thing to assault my ears when I came back to flying here.
Instructors insisting on rotate speeds, WTF!
Rotate speeds belong on 737s where control must be maintained following a single engine failure, and lift off and climb is assured rather than a high drag - go off the end of a runway.
They don’t seem to even want to keep the nose light as they accelerate!
Then they break their rule with the short and soft field takeoffs when the nose is lifted a little then a lot as soon as flying speed is achieved (or a lot for soft), and the aeroplane leaves the ground before ‘rotate speed’ is achieved.
As a student I never learned ‘rotate’, I learned to fly aeroplanes, and I‘ve never come unstuck letting the aeroplane fly when it is ready.

Another airline technique I’ve seen is to lower the nose after landing, apply the brakes, take the flaps up...
Wheel shimmy...
One aeroplane landed with a crosswind and as soon as weight was put on the nosewheel it steered the too fast aeroplane off the side of the runway.
The flight manual for this (Eagle) aeroplane stated that the nosewheel should be held off for as long as possible.

If you read the Cessna POH a forced landing is followed by lowering the nose and applying the brakes.
In a real forced landing the landing is thus stopped by a vertical 180 degree bunt turn to groove the ground with the top of the rudder.
In practice it results in other problems usually resulting in the attention of maintenance.
So we simulate harsh braking by stating it would be done while we take proper care of the aeroplane.

An interesting thing for me to deal with on my flight revalidation for my PPL was the rejected takeoff...
How often do we have this problem for real?
Certainly done enough EFATO practice, and rejected a takeoff at the go/no go decision point...
Had a rough engine and rejected a takeoff sometime in the distant past.
New thing to me, as a flight test exercise. I’ve discussed it (every pretakeoff safety brief), but not practiced a rejected takeoff before.
Like all emergencies, practice, and reality are often very different.
If the examiner shouts “engine fire” then the practice will be more realistic. Close throttle, shut the fuel off, mixture, mags, and master, brake, stop, and evacuate the aeroplane... Take the extinguisher if you can.

It is an unfortunate thing that the more regulations you create the more people will begin to ignore them to the point they even give a miss to the most basic regulations, and what we used to call basic airmanship.
Over regulation complication is the enemy of ‘common sense’ perhaps.

As for the out of control pilots who fly their own aircraft without contact with a flying school, I suppose it is up to all of us to watch out for them and attempt to improve their airmanship where necessary.
Even something as simple as insisting on pushing an aeroplane well clear of the open hangar before it started up will influence the pilot not used to considering such a thing (I did this recently).
The old adage “Safety is everybody’s business” applies.

As for someone’s licence validity, I don’t care half as much as ensuring what we do is as safe as practical.

I do remember those days of the thirteen month five hour stamp.
Pilots would come to me to get their time in, and in those days I could do this... But not stamp their logbooks.
It was not worth my while in the end, and I used to send them to the flying club to get dual in a Cessna.
Even then airline flight crew would sometimes get stamped in their logbooks with too little or no light aircraft time in the past 13 months... Not legal.
So this sort of thing is not new.
venteux, anglianav8r liked this
#1698028
I gave up in 2015. Sold my last aeroplane, the fourth owned either solo or duel. The increasing complexity of regulation, licensing and airspace all played a part as did cost. I only aquired my PPL to satisfy a boyhood curiosity about aerobatics, which i loved immediately. The journey lasted longer than I ever imagined it would, all the way to medals at Advanced level in domestic comps. The joy was already slowly ebbing away when a great freind lost his life in an Aerobatic machine at my home airfield. Six months later I was no longer an aeroplane owner or even in my own mind a pilot. I would not have missed the experience for the world, but there were a lot of factors which made me happy to stop, I am suprised to find I hardly ever miss it, but I often wonder how i found the time to fly the modest 60-70 hours I averaged, fettle the aeroplane(s) constantly, organise maintenance, spares....et al. Having dreaded the day I may need / be forced to stop, it has been a relief to do it as a conciuos choice and find it unpainful. It was not just regulation, but fear of accidentaly making an admin mistake and being uninsured as a result was certainly one factor among many.


I've given up more recently, and echo everything in that quote.
Flown for 30 years, owned 8 a/c from old biplane to ex-mil jets. just cannot be **** anymore with constant bollcks of over regulation. What was safe and sensible at the beginning is still so today. Class G airspace is LESS safe now than before due to ridiculous planning, all the different licenses and their requirements don't make anything safer.
About the only positive thing that I can say honestly made flying safer and more enjoyable was Skydemon. Well done those guys.
Its been 6 months and I don't miss it. In fact, it feels like a burden has been lifted. I never thought I'd be at this point. Flying has always been an absolute PASSION throughout my life since early childhood.
Lockhaven, venteux liked this
#1698031
Irv Lee wrote:
patowalker wrote:We read about "40% of LAPL holders I come across" and "you would be surprised at how many", but are never told how many?


How do you expect this to come about? Ramp checks? I bet @Bathman is not exaggerating based on people he meets, I bet @SteveC has not invented a figure either.


I am looking for a number. If a percentage is quoted, the number must be known. I am prepared for a surprise and to be convinced there is no exaggeration. :)
#1698032
E.g. John Doe wrote:
I gave up in 2015. Sold my last aeroplane, the fourth owned either solo or duel. The increasing complexity of regulation, licensing and airspace all played a part as did cost. I only aquired my PPL to satisfy a boyhood curiosity about aerobatics, which i loved immediately. The journey lasted longer than I ever imagined it would, all the way to medals at Advanced level in domestic comps. The joy was already slowly ebbing away when a great freind lost his life in an Aerobatic machine at my home airfield. Six months later I was no longer an aeroplane owner or even in my own mind a pilot. I would not have missed the experience for the world, but there were a lot of factors which made me happy to stop, I am suprised to find I hardly ever miss it, but I often wonder how i found the time to fly the modest 60-70 hours I averaged, fettle the aeroplane(s) constantly, organise maintenance, spares....et al. Having dreaded the day I may need / be forced to stop, it has been a relief to do it as a conciuos choice and find it unpainful. It was not just regulation, but fear of accidentaly making an admin mistake and being uninsured as a result was certainly one factor among many.


I've given up more recently, and echo everything in that quote.
Flown for 30 years, owned 8 a/c from old biplane to ex-mil jets. just cannot be **** anymore with constant bollcks of over regulation. What was safe and sensible at the beginning is still so today. Class G airspace is LESS safe now than before due to ridiculous planning, all the different licenses and their requirements don't make anything safer.
About the only positive thing that I can say honestly made flying safer and more enjoyable was Skydemon. Well done those guys.
Its been 6 months and I don't miss it. In fact, it feels like a burden has been lifted. I never thought I'd be at this point. Flying has always been an absolute PASSION throughout my life since early childhood.


I can’t help feel sometimes that the long term aim of the CAA to rid British skies of inconvenient GA, is gradually coming to fruition.
plus7g, venteux, flybymike and 1 others liked this
#1698033
MichaelP wrote:As for the out of control pilots who fly their own aircraft without contact with a flying school, I suppose it is up to all of us to watch out for them and attempt to improve their airmanship where necessary.


Are you talking about people flying illegally because they can't be bothered or don't want to get involved with regulation, or are you suggesting that any private pilot who flies their own aircraft without the oversight of a flying school is out-of-control and something needs to be done about them?
#1698037
TheFarmer wrote:
E.g. John Doe wrote:
I gave up in 2015. Sold my last aeroplane, the fourth owned either solo or duel. The increasing complexity of regulation, licensing and airspace all played a part as did cost. I only aquired my PPL to satisfy a boyhood curiosity about aerobatics, which i loved immediately. The journey lasted longer than I ever imagined it would, all the way to medals at Advanced level in domestic comps. The joy was already slowly ebbing away when a great freind lost his life in an Aerobatic machine at my home airfield. Six months later I was no longer an aeroplane owner or even in my own mind a pilot. I would not have missed the experience for the world, but there were a lot of factors which made me happy to stop, I am suprised to find I hardly ever miss it, but I often wonder how i found the time to fly the modest 60-70 hours I averaged, fettle the aeroplane(s) constantly, organise maintenance, spares....et al. Having dreaded the day I may need / be forced to stop, it has been a relief to do it as a conciuos choice and find it unpainful. It was not just regulation, but fear of accidentaly making an admin mistake and being uninsured as a result was certainly one factor among many.


I've given up more recently, and echo everything in that quote.
Flown for 30 years, owned 8 a/c from old biplane to ex-mil jets. just cannot be **** anymore with constant bollcks of over regulation. What was safe and sensible at the beginning is still so today. Class G airspace is LESS safe now than before due to ridiculous planning, all the different licenses and their requirements don't make anything safer.
About the only positive thing that I can say honestly made flying safer and more enjoyable was Skydemon. Well done those guys.
Its been 6 months and I don't miss it. In fact, it feels like a burden has been lifted. I never thought I'd be at this point. Flying has always been an absolute PASSION throughout my life since early childhood.


I can’t help feel sometimes that the long term aim of the CAA to rid British skies of inconvenient GA, is gradually coming to fruition.



Well, my dad describes me as ' a bit bloody minded'.

So I will keep flying for as long as I can, whilst trying to make the ' powers that be's' life as awkward as possible.

For in the words of Micheal O'Leary ' you have to shout at these people if for no other reason than to make sure that they're still awake'.

And when I can't do it anymore I will sit quietly at the back and throw bottles.

I am not prepared to let my decendents, not experience the 'thrill of flight'.

G-JWTP
venteux liked this
#1698043
defcribed wrote:
MichaelP wrote:As for the out of control pilots who fly their own aircraft without contact with a flying school, I suppose it is up to all of us to watch out for them and attempt to improve their airmanship where necessary.


Are you talking about people flying illegally because they can't be bothered or don't want to get involved with regulation, or are you suggesting that any private pilot who flies their own aircraft without the oversight of a flying school is out-of-control and something needs to be done about them?


I think that once a pilot has his licence...... That's it...finito...garnix...nothing...zilch.
No follow on training. No offer of post PPL advice. Get yer plane..insure it and go.
Infringements are increasing, I believe because they aren't taught how not to. There is no go to easy to find information. Anyone who tries to increase awareness at a Club is often ignored or shouted down.
But why should an instructor give free advice? Train a pilot and move on.
The CAA dragged their heels on GPS and although 87% of infringers either never had a GPS or never had it switched on, We have a couple of old sweat instructors who actually blame GPS for infringements. It's time for better instructor Seminars and more availability of seminars like Irv's for private pilots.
But the old story continues... Those who need these seminars, don't go....those that don't need them do. Why don't they need them?....because they make the effort to keep up.
That's my rant and unfortunately don't have the answers.
Nick liked this
#1698054
Reading this thread with interest. I have always been fascinated by flying, even back to when, as a pre-ten-year-old, one ran round the school playground, arms outstretched, making suitable noises and attempting to "jump" another who was doing the same...
The mystery and complexity of becoming a pilot was beyond snotty-nosed oiks who couldn't even aspire to a blazer, let alone one with gold rings on the sleeves....or an Irvine jacket, gauntlet gloves and silk-scarf...the obligatory handlebar -moustache could be cultivated in the far - off future, but the "Oxford accent" would be a hurdle too far!
None of this stopped the building of ever-more complex balsa models,
but flying was reserved for the wealthy and well-connected.

I saw the birth of the outlaw "hang -glider" movement and marvelled at the sheer recklessness of those pioneers.....then the regulators stepped in. someone motorised one....then the regulators stepped in.....then the trike-pod, the ultra lightweight devices like the Pterodactyl...only for those prepared and able to throw a significant amount of cash at the hobby....
Now fast-forward.......
In the last few short years, we have seen the introduction of the SSDR class
wherein the pilot has to pass all the formal training and then is allowed to fly whatever single-seat piece of junk he fancies, without any training whatsoever to allow an informed decision as to what is a good bet for survival and what is an early demise in the offing. (engineering and flying being 2 totally different disciplines)

Even better, the totally unregulated nanolight category! The only
bar to entry appears to be the umpteen thousand pounds required to purchase such a machine.

It seems crazy to legalise such a machine for someone who hasn't a clue about air-law or basic meteorology. "Pay your money,- go kill yourself" must be the CAA's advertising slogan on that one!

So, 2 wild extremes for the putative flyer. If the Nanolight route is actually safe (I haven't seen the horror stories of crash 'n' burn, so my fears are obviously unfounded) then the regulatory regime on the rest of Private Flying is obviously far too onerous and overbearing.
The Campaign Against Aviation has seen the death of Britain's last Flexwing manufacturer, how long before all aircraft in the UK are built from imported kits?
#1698070
Lockhaven wrote:CAA = Campaign Against Aviation.

FAA = For All Aviation.


Appealing though it is, life is not that simple. There's good and bad in both systems, and I don't think that huge generalisations do us any favours. FTAOD, I think the FAA ism, in most (but certainly not all) areas, ahead of the CAA & EASA.

Ian
G-JWTP liked this
#1698076
tomshep wrote:If it is possible to gain a BMAA syllabus NPPL with just two books to learn and that is sufficient to make one safe in the air, then the rest of it is largely bunkum.


Two books?????!!! :shock: (Cosgrove I know about)

What was the other one??? Couldn't have been up to much I've survived almost a decade without it!

Andy
#1698079
Oh great, it’s time for the “everything is Carp” “GA is doomed” “the US is GA utopia” thread again

There is some amazing technology maturing, low cost and available right now - just look at PAW, SkyDemon, SkyEcho, Low cost EFIS... Electric power will be maturing soon..

There are amazing stories and examples of youth flying training, aircraft building, STEM outreach, disabled flying training...

The CAA has actively tried to reduce burdens - nowhere else in the world has medical declarations like ours - and yes the current licensing complexity is a direct result of our lobbying and demands....

Is everything perfect, no, but IMHO the most destructive force in UK GA right now are the prophets of doom that sit in clubhouses and destroy any kind any kind of enthusiasm or positivity in our new joiners and youth, and sabotage any chance of actual engagement with the organisations we need to sort
nallen, Paul_Sengupta, JAFO and 3 others liked this
#1698081
G-BLEW wrote:While I don't agree with your view of all regulators, I do agree that the current system could be much simpler. Right now it isn't, and while we can all rant about the detail, we shouldn't use it as an excuse to avoid understanding the requirements for our own licences/medicals/privileges.

Wouldn't it be more constructive if the 'I see X% of candidates inadvertently getting it wrong' posts were accompanied by a simple plain English explanation of what's often wrong and what's actually correct?

Ian

I think the majority are working on getting 12 hours by the time of their next biennial instructor flight. In other words they have invented their own Sep rating future expiry as 2 years after their most recent training hour and don't worry about rolling validity
@Bathman @SteveC Any thoughts?
@bookworm forgetting rolling validity, (because i know how that happened), how would you explain lapl validity being a 12 hours p1, t/o&l being P1, and the extra hour for training on top if not "expert incompetence"? AND.... where do we find the actual names of these "experts"
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