Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1859398
RisePilot wrote:Strikes are ineffective and a tool of a bygone era.

Could you fire the ATCOs and hire new ones? Yes you could; here's just such an example:

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/08/reagan-fires-11-000-striking-air-traffic-controllers-aug-5-1981-012292


To be fair, industrial relations have moved on considerably in 40 years. There are also considerable work to rule/strike actions in Europe alone.

Albania recently imprisoned a number of union leaders in Tirana. A friend of mine was only released after a month for orchestrating the action - most being imprisoned for actually going sick.

Noone is irreplaceable and I am not a believer of striking. But it is always a tricky position when terms and conditions are being unfairly eroded.

I hope they get it all sorted satisfactorily in HIAL
kanga liked this
#1859403
RisePilot wrote:Strikes are ineffective and a tool of a bygone era.

Could you fire the ATCOs and hire new ones? Yes you could; here's just such an example:

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/08/reagan-fires-11-000-striking-air-traffic-controllers-aug-5-1981-012292


ISTR the fallout on domestic CAT from those firings was mitigated by the massive redeployment of military ATCOs (regular and Reserve) to civil Towers and 'Centers'. UK military does not have such reserves, and devolved Scots government would anyway have no authority to deploy them. Also, presumably, in UK any ATCO would need both CAA/EASA qualification and a specific aerodrome and role (Tower, Approach, Radar) rating (trained and examined); UK military ATCOs would presumably not have even the former, as I gather that retraining military ATCOs to civil standards is a significant market for ATCO schools.

So it might be said that 'firing strikers' is 'ineffective and a tool of a bygone era'.
#1859419
Suggesting the firing of government employees in the 1980s (in the case I was talking about) is an answer to an industrial dispute at a private company in the 2020s, along with it being a totally different country, licensing and employment regulatory regime is so utterly pointless that I don’t even know why I’m typing this.
JonathanB, AlanM liked this
#1859431
RisePilot wrote:Strikes are ineffective and a tool of a bygone era.

Could you fire the ATCOs and hire new ones? Yes you could; here's just such an example:

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/08/reagan-fires-11-000-striking-air-traffic-controllers-aug-5-1981-012292

The example quoted above was in the USA and wasn't applicable to UK practices.
In the UK however, a certain ANSP years ago would do the following as a normal way of working; they would take over a contract, fire all the controllers, then re-hire SOME of them on reduced terms and conditions, thus exposing them to increased working periods and reductions in service provision.
Of course, the requirement to maintain certain minimum levels of staffing via SRATCOH partiallly ceased this practice however there were still (and probably still are) means of getting round the requirements.
#1859446
kanga wrote:UK military ATCOs would presumably not have even the former, as I gather that retraining military ATCOs to civil standards is a significant market for ATCO schools.


But it did happen.
When the beancounters at Boscombe Down decided to change their ANSP, only one or two of the staff elected to remain NATS staff, the remainder then needed to train new staff asap. There were few takers for this contract with the existing Boscombe controllers trying to train the 'new' staff, resulting in the incoming staff having their contract cancelled.
A new entry of RAF ATCOs, supplemented by a hard core of experienced ones, was posted in early friday morning ready to familiarise themselves on friday and over the weekend (I'm told they just stood behind the 'existing' controllers and observed) and they commenced work very slowly on the monday morning.
By matspart3
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1892472
Cub wrote:Maybe the use of cooperative surveillance data by a greater cadre of ATS personnel has opened up other possibilities for consideration?


I agree with Cub. Prospect haven’t done their ATCO members any favours here. Sumburgh already uses AFISOs out of normal hours and, with the recent tacit acceptance of IAPs and the use of ADSB for AFIS, I can see the other islands going that way too.
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By Chilli Monster
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1893092
matspart3 wrote:I agree with Cub. Prospect haven’t done their ATCO members any favours here. Sumburgh already uses AFISOs out of normal hours and, with the recent tacit acceptance of IAPs and the use of ADSB for AFIS, I can see the other islands going that way too.


Most HIAL Airports have FISO’s for out of hours Air Ambulance Flights, and have done for several years. As these are single flight occurrences, they’re actually the forerunners of the likes of Kemble and Barrow allowing FISO’s for IAP’s. Their use is severely controlled, and it’s dubious there will be any effect apart from units which don’t have more than one IFR flight every couple of hours.