Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1695060
They don't specifically mention NATS by name. I was interested in controllers opinions on whether there should be correlation between salary and traffic volume.
It said the controllers' wage demand "greatly exceeds" the policy, adding that the comparison with the private sector was "misleading and unrealistic" due to the different volume of air traffic movements.
#1695061
As I have said before, it is not just about salary. I think HIAL are opting to put a remote tower centre at Inverness and look at saving costs. Therefore, if you are in an outer island you may not want to move.

HIAL It is a Non-Departmental Public Body, wholly owned by the Scottish Ministers. HIAL is non- profit making and subsidy is provided to offset the losses incurred in its operation.

I didn’t see the salaries as horrendous - but the rest of the UK has had to pay more as ATCOs in the UK are becoming rarer.
#1695066
It's not an easy one to answer, however assuming a 10% increase would bring them close to the national average I'm not convinced ATCOs at the HIAL airfields being paid on par would represent value for money.

AlanM wrote:As I have said before, it is not just about salary. I think HIAL are opting to put a remote tower centre at Inverness and look at saving costs. Therefore, if you are in an outer island you may not want to move.

I don't follow that striking for more money is going to help that issue. If anything being paid more will surely strengthen the case for centralised control?

AlanM wrote:I didn’t see the salaries as horrendous - but the rest of the UK has had to pay more as ATCOs in the UK are becoming rarer.

Indeed, so there are options open if money is the real issue. :?:

Let's face it the jobs they do have little in common with those in say Manchester, beyond the name.
#1695069
In 1972, apart from Campbeltown, Dundee, Inverness and Barra, all the HIAL airports listed were operated solely by NATS, who provided a single permanent controller who was also airport manager. Of the other 4, Campbeltown (aka Macrihanish) was RAF, Inverness was still operated by NATS but had 4 (I think) controllers one of whom was airport manager, Dundee was local authority with ATS provided by a contractor and Barra used to be A/G.
The CAA (from 1975) didn't like its ATS provider running airports so a separate company was created to run them but still with ATS provided by NATS, then this company was handed over to what is now HIAL who decided to employ its own controllers; I believe some controllers elected to transfer to HIAL.
I don't know how present salaries compare, but NATS has 5 salary 'bands' depending on the complexity of its operations at different locations so I would expect HIAL controller pay to be on par with NATS Band 1 pay at least; I won't quote locations where NATS Band 1 operates as having been retired for 10 years, these may have changed, but Farnborough was a Band 1 unit in 2008.
Pay policy however differs in that NATS controller salary increases are negotiated annually whereas HIAL controller salary increases are limited by the same government policy which has seen nurses, firemen etc getting pay increases well below inflation for many years.
By the way, you'll find that of the HIAL airports unaffected by the strike, Barra, Campbeltown, Islay and Tiree are AFIS whilst Wick is AFIS 'in emergency'.
#1695100
chevvron wrote:Pay policy however differs in that NATS controller salary increases are negotiated annually whereas HIAL c


Nope. Last three, maybe last four, pay deals have been multi-year agreements.

And the banding exercise didn't take into account all forms of complexity, such as movements outside CAS.
#1695142
GonzoEGLL wrote:
And the banding exercise didn't take into account all forms of complexity, such as movements outside CAS.

Working at Farnborough, I'm only too well aware of that; our Prospect rep was running in circles when we were put in Band 1 and tried to get it altered, but he was told by our new boss (ex Heathrow) 'the decision has been made and cannot be changed until the next review'; we felt totally shafted because LARS movement were not taken into account when deciding the station 'band'.
GonzoEGLL, Talkdownman liked this
#1695285
Miscellaneous wrote:Thanks for the replies.

It's clearly not possible to make a valued judgement without more info. Nevertheless I can't help but feel asking for more with a justification that others have more is rather weak.

I think the case is as I said; whereas NATS and other ANSPs are private companies enabling the negotiation of pay rises in line with inflation, HIAL controllers are classed as being 'public servants' of the Scottish Government and have hence endured a max 1% rise for many years as have other public servants.
#1695348
......and that’s the problem, people are moving. Below inflation pay rises have made HIAL units unappealing, especially on the islands so staff retention is a problem. Inglis Lyon HIAL CEO uses this reasoning to justify remote towers but then denies it during pay negotiations.

The industrial action is solely about terms & conditions not remote towers, that’s a fight for another day.
#1796932
Cost-effectiveness (over liftetime) and safety of remote towers in HIAL questioned:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/187 ... ing-costs/

..unhelpfully linked (especially in Comments) to separate issues of Scots and Shetland Independence
#1797000
chevvron wrote:
GonzoEGLL wrote:
And the banding exercise didn't take into account all forms of complexity, such as movements outside CAS.

Working at Farnborough, I'm only too well aware of that; our Prospect rep was running in circles when we were put in Band 1 and tried to get it altered, but he was told by our new boss (ex Heathrow) 'the decision has been made and cannot be changed until the next review'; we felt totally shafted because LARS movement were not taken into account when deciding the station 'band'.



Crikey. Surely LARS work is at least 50% of your workload isn't it? I fly out of Frensham and I hear over the air far more coms between Farnborough and class G traffic/transits of D than I do interactions between you and bizjet traffic in/out of Farnborough.