Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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#1693999
Most flying schools/clubs pay peanuts...

Err, that's it really :roll:


It's no surprise that there is a shortage of instructors out there when you can get a whopping £20/per flying hour, but not paid for all the other time and effort it takes to do the job effectively. The aviation world (and airlines in some cases) generally appears to thrive on highly qualified people doing jobs for peanuts..

(I should add that I already had a CPL anyway, so now need for the TK exams and the cost of the FI Rating is all that I'd like to recoup - I have other income from flying and instructing for me is part time. But I would like to be rewarded appropriately for using my skills)
Last edited by JodelDavo on Thu May 16, 2019 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By PaulB
#1694000
Balliol wrote:As I’ve bored on about before, I believe the CPL exam thing is a total red herring. If anyone hasn’t got the time or money to do CPL distance learning and exams they haven’t got the time or money to do an FI course and give the commitment to be an effective instructor.


Not always so.... I have the time and could find the money.... I love teaching and think I could make a good (or at least a reasonably good) FI. However, I'm massively put off by having to waste both substantial time and a bit of cash on something that has been described in this very thread as "more or less irrelevant".

Maybe if there was a group of souls wanting to do the CPL TK so that the pain could be shared, I might. But as a solo effort, slaving away at night after night for the ... ermm... how was it described again?.... not at the moment.
User avatar
By PaulB
#1694007
Balliol wrote:@PaulB have you considered a CRI course then? Of course you can do the FI course without CPL TK as well.


Yes, but then you're limited to LAPL only... as for CRI, that's mainly type differences and instructor hours isn't it? I can see that loads of people love it... perhaps I need to speak to one.?
#1694011
CRI is brilliant, I have been one for 7 years and done lots of biennials, a few refreshers and tailwheel, syndicate checkouts, one NPPL(M)->NPPL(SSEA), a couple of SEP--> microlight, some training for a disabled pilot... You can do a lot with it.

I'm using the time and money between jobs right now to upgrade my ratings at the moment, and enjoying it - and have become quite familiar with the FAA system as I'm shooting for both FAA and EASA ratings. On which point, can I mention that...

EASA: 9 CPL TK exams, FI course and skills test.

FAA: CPL TK exam, CPL course and checkride, IR TK exam, IR course and checkride, 2 FAA CFI TK exams, CFI course and checkride.

So - EASA - 9 writtens, 1 course, one flight test
- FAA - 4 writtens, 3 courses, three flight tests.

So whilst in many ways things are vastly more pragmatic in FAAland, they are hardly handing things to anybody on a plate. People thinking that it would be fine to just do FAA CPL TK, then into the EASA FI course aren't really comparing apples with apples.

G
#1694013
PaulB wrote:
Balliol wrote:@PaulB have you considered a CRI course then? Of course you can do the FI course without CPL TK as well.


Yes, but then you're limited to LAPL only... as for CRI, that's mainly type differences and instructor hours isn't it? I can see that loads of people love it... perhaps I need to speak to one.?


Drop me a line any time; I'm a reasonably experienced one. (Please use email 'though, not PMs, as the PM box keeps filling up.)

G
#1694018
I’m one of those people who is about to start an FI course so instead of giving reasons not to, here’s some reasons to do it.

First of all, I am giving up my job to do this. For the last two years I’ve been trying to work through the ATPL TK and then latterly the CBIR TK while working. I run the UK operation of our company and they are incredibly understanding about my training. The CEO used to run a commercial flying school so knows exactly what is involved. Even with that support, it has been impossible to do this sort of work and study. I also have two young kids who press on a fair amount of my time. The only way to move forward with the TK and FI course was to stop working altogether and book the course. I can concentrate on the CPL TK (Serial course changer) and hope to be done by the early part of 2020. Yes it takes that long when you don’t do it in a classroom full time. However, I am finding the TK both interesting and relevant. The FI course is a month to six weeks full time so why am I giving up a well paid job to be an FI?

Well, I see the FI as step one and certainly won’t be the last instruction rating I add. With any career path change you always have to start at the entry level and it may take a few years to get to a level where I could be said to be making a living from it but I’m in no particular hurry.
I guess that makes me a career instructor, not a fill in on my way to an airline career. The TK is by far and away the biggest hurdle but once it’s done it’s done.

Now all I have to do is find some time to do the IR.
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By T67M
#1694022
I've had a CRI for just under 12 years (second revalidation-by-test coming up in October), and now have 1000 hours total time of which 250 are instructing. Very happy to discuss the pros (and cons) of the CRI with anyone considering it.
#1694032
I have embarked upon the route on becoming an Instructor.

Started CPL TK back in December and have just got home after sitting another three exams over the past two days, having passed the first four in March. I work full time from home which helps not having a daily commute to drive.

The theory course is a big undertaking, certainly a step up from the FAA CPL I did 16 years ago, I reckon on doing circa 20-25 hours every week and ramping up towards exam week. This really needs a very understanding significant other for which I am so blessed in having, she is also very happy with my desire to instruct on weekends and evenings for she has her own time consuming hobby of large ponies. I am looking to complete the theory side by end of September.

I probably won't be able to do the FIC until summer next year as I need to save up some holidays this year to carry over so that I'm not using the entire 6 1/2 week allocation I have each year in one lump some. This also needs a very understanding manager!

It will all be worth while though when I get to see that beaming smile after a students first solo or skills test pass. Seeing them progress and suddenly see something click in their minds and it all falls into place. That I am really looking forward too.

I do know it isn't all rosy though and certainly don't have rose tinted specs on.
Last edited by WelshRichy on Thu May 16, 2019 9:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
#1694034
Balliol wrote:As I’ve bored on about before, I believe the CPL exam thing is a total red herring. If anyone hasn’t got the time or money to do CPL distance learning and exams they haven’t got the time or money to do an FI course and give the commitment to be an effective instructor.


That's a bit unfair on people. I'm now coming to the end of my CPL TK studies (I think I've failed flight planning due to lots of questions outside the LO's but that's another story. I'll find out tomorrow) and it's a lot of work. It's taken me several hours a day, almost every day, since last September. For the two week periods leading up to each set of exams I barely left the house. I don't work at the moment and my family are all in different parts of the country so I have plenty of study time. For someone who does have job and a family, spending a large amount of your spare time studying and then having to explain to them that 3 weeks of your annual holiday will be lost to the compulsory (but by no means essential) ground-school will probably go down like a lead balloon. Unless you already know most of it you are not going to pass these exams with an occasional bit of study before walking into the exam room.

The work involved is probably 80%, maybe more, of that required for ATPL and, as I found out today, it could be worth studying the ATPL stuff as well as they're going to ask you questions on it anyway.

Now that I've (almost) done it, I can definitely see why it puts people off. CPL TK is certainly not a "simple subset" of ATPL, a description given on here recently. In reality, there's not a lot of difference between the two. Frankly, I now just want to get it finished so I can have some kind of life again :) .
#1694047
WelshRichy wrote:
matthew_w100 wrote:I'd love to do it but having had a migraine I can't have a class 1 medical.


You don't need a Class 1, a PPL/FI with a Class 2 is sufficient to be paid as a FI.


I didn't think you could actually be paid to do it - thanks, I'll look into it.

But in any case, if I'm not healthy enough to fly mail bags it would be ridiculous to suggest I was healthy enough to fly with a live student.
By GAWARE
#1694051
This post is very out of date FIs are in big demand and there is now some very decent packages available for FIs , long time coming and may not last but for now you can secure an FI job with a decent salary.
#1694052
[quote="Lefty"]
(3) IMHO, the FI courses are too long - and too expensive. They are a one size fits all solution - in a complex multi level environment. The syllabus is primarily aimed at the young wannabe airline pilots with little or no flying (or instructing) experience. It does not cater for the experienced PPL, (or former instructor) wishing to give something back to aviation.



The FI course cost may or may not be too high, but then, as well as an aeroplane, it involves an instructor and he has to be paid... didn't you say something about instructor pay?

My real problem with your comment is that the FI course is simply not too long. I did it last year.

After about 22 flying hours I thought I'd nailed it and the rest was going to be a waste of time as we'd finished the sylabus. Then I flew the last 8 hours and realised that I needed them to refresh and embed the first 22 hours ready for the test. I really enjoyed it actually.

It was just about the right length - and no, I'm not a carp neophyte who needed to be 'brought up to standard'. I had about 2000hrs, virtually all tailwheel, a good deal of CRI instructing and aerobatics instructing privileges on that CRI.

Do the course and then judge it, you don't tend to hit much 'from the hip'.

In response to the OP, I was (am still) a CRI and was enjoying doing biennials, tail-wheel differences, aerobatics ratings and the like. But then I wanted to do the 'trips around the bay' in Stampes and Tiger Moths and that required me to be an FI(A) - 'cos they are, in regulatory terms, Exercise 3 of the PPL/LAPL (air experience), given under an ATO, and so the pilot needs to be an FI(A) - QED.

As I was not aiming to actually do any real ab-initio then my lack of CPL TK was not a real issue - but it would be if I wanted to do this for a living... as would the low pay etc. that career instructors get. They have my gratitude and respect (for the most part).
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