Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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PaulSS has pretty much saved me typing the same thing, totally agree! It is frustrating to see this attitude continue where it seems folk think their eye sight is the be all and end all - smacks of “I dont like it so it must be rubbish”.

Total accept it is not without its danger of distraction if not used properly (audio feed is a great addition to help, tho possibly from SD rather than PAW which is a little more selective) and the more users the better as indeed not everyone has something to see. But those that continue to harp on about it just being a distraction clearly don't use any of their instruments in the cockpit nor bother with one of those distracting GPS devices as they clearly have superior abilities above us mere mortals.

Think of it as visual acquisition assistance, its part of the tool kit, not the replacement. Seems some folk think it means turning on the Autopilot and EC device and going to sleep the way they try to have us believe that all you need is a good look out.

I guess these same nay sayers must not use SatNav in car’s either as the road signs are perfectly adequate and you might be distracted from reading them if your TomTom spoke to you!?
There is no doubt that these EC systems increase flight safety if used sensibly

It's a bit like a traffic service and will ultimately replace that I expect. However at the moment it doesn't pick out non-transponding aircraft and for those that emit limited transponder information it can't do position.

As long as those limitations are considered it can only be a good step forward, but you are looking at a future where everyone in the air has to emit ADS-B
gaznav, David Wood liked this
RE FUNKE and my less than favourable view of them/it : If like us, the firmware on your Transponder is an older version pre "ADSB Support" - its 400 Euro to get it upgraded.

Apart from the shocking charge for what is a software upgrade, I now understand that even the ones that do have ADSB (I don't know if all or just the upgraded units) are apparently reporting only a stationary position, heading North only, with no speed information - So essentially useless for anyone else to be warned of potential conflict. Glad we never sent ours off to be upgraded to find that out! (full disclosure: I have only seen some mention of this so not sure how widespread this is, if it is particular units, etc)

Without meaning to advertise Trig (and I have zero idea if the devices are better or worse but), I would say that I am aware they do the necessary FW upgrade for free and will give you a cup of coffee whilst doing so....

You would think FUNKE would be a bit more supportive of helping increase EC rather than the current take it for $$$ or leave it - Compound that with it not appearing to be working properly the charge to even try to get ADSB enabled is preventative!

I tried to ask but got a pretty basic "this is our standard fee for all service and it could save you money as we would automatically upgrade or repair any other aspects found to be an issue as part of the service which might be much more".... well then surely do the FW for free (or a reasonable amount) and give the owner the choice if they want any work done!?

Meantime I cant use Sky Echo as that is a separate ADSB (CAP1391) and my PAW doesn't have ADSB capability with my transponder due to the FW. So whislt I can see lots, only other PAW users (and Ground stations with Transponder capability) can see me...
Last edited by AlanK on Thu May 16, 2019 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
In other words, you're able to use PAW wether or not you have mode S or ADSB out and see PAW, ADSB, bearingless mode C&S(soon to be not bearingless) and rebroadcast FLARM. If you have Skyecho with its ADSB out then you'll need to disable your mode S and then you'll be able to see ADSB(and mode S? maybe), and FLARM if you pay extra.
leemoore1966 wrote:
PaulSS wrote:@Maxthelion
There is no Mode S conflict because PAW does not (yet) do ADSB out.

What do you mean by this Max?

I think this refers to the fact it is not allowed to run both a ModeS transponder and CAP1391 device from the same airframe


Exactly, thanks Lee.

PaulSS; all the other stuff you mention in your post is not stuff I was alluding to at all.
Maxthelion wrote: you'll need to disable your mode S

I dont think thats the option - you need to disable ADSB, I dont think its permited to disable Mode S if you have a working transponder. Certainly the Sky Echo device says it is the ADSB -OUT on that which must be disabled. It has nothing for Transponders and wont as it is a PAW feature that is being developed to plot Transponder traffic (Mode S 3D)

Ground stations are needed for ModeS 3D, this is where the tie up with 360Radar comes into play to some extent (still need PAW ground stations) but that is going of on a tangent.
My own feeling is whilst the Highlands are probably less value, its when out and about away from the field where these things have the most value. Closer to home you have ATC and circuits patterns and really little time to be considering what EC is alerting you to (you probably know there is a plane ahead of you on final) - so you should have other way of knowing what's out there, but flying around the middle of the Cairngorms there is not much other than best efforts from Scottish and of course the infallible eyeball :cyclopsani: so....

PAW is the most cost effective way to see what else is out there at moment but need to appreciate limitations.
Last edited by AlanK on Thu May 16, 2019 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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