[PaulSS]

I don't know the details, Boxkite, but I would imagine it's a fairly 'simple' case of comparing some sort of code (maybe a Hex Code or similar) from the Mode S 'direct' transmission (for the bearingless side of things) and the Mode S MLAT transmission from 360Radar. If they are the same signal then it can block the bearingless target.

Hopefully someone who actually knows what they're talking about can chime in because I'm just postulating

[AlanK]

PaulSS, what stops PA displaying both a bearingless ring received directly from an aircraft and a multilaterated signal from an OGNR station for the same aircraft?

Magic! Thats getting into how the Modes 3D will work at the system level and the answer is probably a thread of its own - expect it will be smart enough to choose one or the other when the same hex code is received.

[patowalker]

In answer to Alan K's last post - thanks, that's a good summary, but it's important to note there aren't (as far as I know) any transponders that PAW isn't compatible with.

See my earlier rant about FUNKE Transponders

I'm confused. Why does the FUNKE Transponder weakness make it incompatible with PAW? It only means it is incapable of emitting full spec ADS-B Out, which does not affect PAW performance at all.

[AlanK]

By not compatible I mean you cant get it to do ADSB-Out (i.e. the only reason to connect it to PAW)

No impact on PAW doing its own thing (ADSB-In (see others) and PAW (see and be seen))

Perhaps incompatible was the wrong word to use... I have more choice ways to describe it but thats not for here (like why it continued to squak 7000 even in STBY mode and had to be told by ATC to turn the thing off)

[leemoore1966]

PaulSS, what stops PA displaying both a bearingless ring received directly from an aircraft and a multilaterated signal from an OGNR station for the same aircraft?

Its quite complicated but effectively we are processing data from 2 sources, the transponder direct, and the transponder indirect (via OGN-R)
Both of these sources have the same HexID, and each have individual timestamp information indicating how recent there specific data was captured.
If the timestamp exceeds a threshold the data is discarded as no longer relevant.
So here is a typical scenario that we see.

An aircraft on approach to an airfield gradually descending, at some height threshold, the MLAT network does not receive sufficient information to resolve a position. For example, at Coventry Airport, this happens around 500ft AGL.
Once the MLAT capture times out, PilotAware only has the ModeS data, and hence reverts from a positioned aircraft to a bearingless target, using the known altitude, and signal strength resolution as per classic Bearingless Target resolution.

So in answer to your question, the two sources of data are combined, but the visual and audio representation is based upon the timely relevance of the data.

Thx
Lee

[patowalker]

By not compatible I mean you cant get it to do ADSB-Out (i.e. the only reason to connect it to PAW)

No impact on PAW doing its own thing (ADSB-In (see others) and PAW (see and be seen))

But a transponder connected to PAW is useless, because the resulting ADS-B is SIL=0, which is ignored by certified equipment, so you would only be visible to other PAW. Or am I missing something?

[AlanK]

But a transponder connected to PAW is useless, because the resulting ADS-B is SIL=0, which is ignored by certified equipment, so you would only be visible to other PAW. Or am I missing something?

Not useless, just not used by certified equipment (at the moment)

The whole SIL thing and who uses ADSB from non certified sources is another question - For now ADSB (in this context) is primarily to see and be seen in the air by fellow GA colleagues - Either PAW or Sky Echo users can see this SIL0 ADSB

[buzzthetower]

When the MLat functionality of PAW is cutover (hopefully later this month) and those bearingless targets become positional, will Skydemon then give us audible alerts for them? or will it still keep quiet as it's not come from an ADS-B source? I find it annoying that SD will not put an option in to allow bearingless audible warnings, but maybe wth MLat it will be better.

[Ian Melville]

Yes and no, Unless you can be sure they actually do work it may be pronlematic to try and list them out. Eg ATR833 should work.. .

Er no, the ATR833 is a radio, not a transponder. I expect that was just a brain fart.

[AlanK]

Yes and no, Unless you can be sure they actually do work it may be pronlematic to try and list them out. Eg ATR833 should work.. .

Er no, the ATR833 is a radio, not a transponder. I expect that was just a brain fart.

Ah, good point, was thinking if the also somewhat frustrating radio (keep managing to end up overwriting saved channels)

The TRT800 FW v 4. something is our Transponder

[AlanK]

When the MLat functionality of PAW is cutover (hopefully later this month) and those bearingless targets become positional, will Skydemon then give us audible alerts for them? or will it still keep quiet as it's not come from an ADS-B source? I find it annoying that SD will not put an option in to allow bearingless audible warnings, but maybe wth MLat it will be better.

I think thats still to be confirmed by SD - not sure its known yet but agree would like it. I have however not missed some of the Transponder warnings so Im starting to see the thinking for not having them (but an option would be nice or perhaps just a brief beep rather than full announcement would be nice compromise?)

[buzzman]

I'm considering either PAW or SkyEcho for my iPad mini/SkyDemon setup, but confused (as many are) over which one is best. I do like the idea of near realtime weather that SE is working on but I want maximum traffic reporting.

has anyone produced a definitive comparison of features/benefits between PAW and SE?

[AlanK]

When the MLat functionality of PAW is cutover (hopefully later this month) and those bearingless targets become positional, will Skydemon then give us audible alerts for them? or will it still keep quiet as it's not come from an ADS-B source? I find it annoying that SD will not put an option in to allow bearingless audible warnings, but maybe wth MLat it will be better.

I think that's yet to be confirmed by SD but it's hoped they would - I suspect its is not yet confirmed one way or other until its rolled out properly but I would certainly agree it should have something.

I have however not missed some of the Transponder warnings so I'm starting to see the thinking for not having them all. However an option would be nice or perhaps just a brief beep rather than full announcement would be nice compromise?

[AlanK]

want maximum traffic reporting.

has anyone produced a definitive comparison of features/benefits between PAW and SE?

I am sure there is something out there, but in AFAIK I would say PAW for meeting the reporting requirement you ask for - it simply sees more one way or other.

However, it does come with some caveats around how you will be seen by others who are not PAW users, as it is not by itself ADSB-Out. You need to understand why and how this affect you.

I can't comment on weather aspect of SE.

[Paul_Sengupta]

If you plug in another SDR (preferably a low power one) and give it some sort of antenna, the PilotAware will also do weather. It hasn't been widely tested yet as there isn't a wide network of transmitters - transmitters as I understand it that uAvionix are paying for, so there's not too much hoo-har about it from the PAW side. But you can do it. An official solution may come later.