Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
Talkdownman wrote:
lobstaboy wrote:Why do we need ATC at all then? I mean, either it's needed or it isn't at any particular time and place.

Why do we need (AT)Control outside controlled airspace...

I dunno. Give us a clue...
User avatar
By rohmer
SD: "Some of these places are big enough to have "shock/horror" Class D airspace which reverts to class G outside these published hours."

Can you give examples, please? It would be useful to know for future airspace design criteria. Thanks
This answers the why do we need question.
PART 7 Air traffic services
CHAPTER 1 Air traffic services
180. Requirement for an air traffic control approval 90
181. Duty of person in charge to be satisfied as to competence of controllers 91
182. Manual of air traffic services 91
183. Provision of air traffic services 91
184. Making of an air traffic direction in the interests of safety 91
185. Making of a direction for airspace policy purposes 92
186. Use of radio call signs at aerodromes 92
187. Approval of instrument flight procedures 92

It's in CAP393 The Air Navigation Order
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By kanga
Waveflyer wrote:From the NOTAM - 12-5-19 AD closed due staffing 0930-1015 1200-1230 1415-1500 No movements permitted during the periods of closure.


In this context I've always taken 'no movements' to mean 'no takeoffs, landings, nor taxiing to holding points'. I have occasionally taxied ie under power from, eg hangar apron to pumps, making blind calls to 'Gloucester ground/traffic' on the last frequency suggested by the ATIS for Tower, and obviously keeping a good lookout, giving way where appropriate, etc. Wrong ?
I've only flown in the UK and New Zealand for any length of time - and my experience of NZ was even in "regional airports" where there is meat bombing, scenics, heli, and regional commercial (turboprop AirNZ), microlight and heavier stuff, all operating without anyone controlling, at anytime it seemed.

The regionals, scenics and metabombers seem to have a good natured priority, I guess because for them time really is money. Saying that, I was holding to allow a regional go first but he ushered me in front to depart first - daresay my wake turbulance did not register for him ! All VFR of course.

Why do I mention it ? Just because I also wonder why Gloucestershire AP had to close to movements rather than downgrade to indemnity only - at least the flying schools would have been able to continue..
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kanga wrote:.....making blind calls to 'Gloucester ground/traffic' on the last frequency suggested by the ATIS for Tower, and obviously keeping a good lookout, giving way where appropriate, etc. Wrong ?

Even the ATIS was turned off yesterday.

Any movements off the aprons might be a no no.
What’s the typical salary and working conditions like for an ATCO at somewhere like Gloucester / Oxford / Cambridge these days?
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By kanga
Waveflyer wrote:..
Even the ATIS was turned off yesterday.


ah, so a passing aircraft with an emergency, hearing nothing on the ATIS frequency, would just have to take instructions from the Signals Square (with a large yellow cross on the red square, overlaid when the ATCO starts the break, of course) :)
Talkdownman wrote:
CloudHound wrote:This answers the why do we need question

If that was in answer to my 'why do we need' question I'm not sure that you read it properly.

80 000 runway movements, 6000 IAPs and 10 000 ‘known’ transits might have something to do with it :roll:
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