Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1693030
David Wood wrote:Perhaps I'm being thick. But what crime(s) would such an investigation be hoping to uncover?

Not defending it, but the rumour goes that they wanted to prevent pilots not preparing properly for weather creating a problem by using this as an easy out (ie if the weather is Carp then go IFR from the get-go). UK/US would argue that indeed that's what a pop-up clearance is for :roll:

derekf wrote:1. Flying from France with an IR(R) and you don't want to file a Z

Why is that a problem? If you fly VFR while in French airspace and only switch once in UK airspace you'd be fine within your licence. And filing a Z is the simplest thing in the world (plus allows some good shortcuts). What am I missing?

derekf wrote:I said the way I remember it was if you're on an IFR flight plan why (Y) would you want to change

:thumright: :thumleft:

imperialsam wrote:Good question. Only because I've never had to file one before, and I'm not too sure what it would entail with regard to validation etc. And you can't file them from SkyDemon, so I'd have to find my AFPEx login details...

If you have the rating then flying on an IFR plan is really easy, please try it, and with IRR only class A is no-go. Go for the real thing, thats' what you trained for. Get someone who's flying IFR and talk you through the first plan you file; it's not hard but some nonintuitive parts, and please don't use AFPEx for this, something like RocketRoute/EuroFPL/Aerorouter is way easier.
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#1693123
I went to Guernsey for the weekend and arriving on Saturday morning my initial call to Jersey Control contained "request IFR into the zone at flight level eight zero and vectors for the ILS please".

Being on a VFR flight plan didn't seem to be a problem. The conditions are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned - an ILS doesn't become a 'practice ILS' just because you can see out of the window.

Things I learned:

1. Bournemouth Radar will happily keep you most of the way across, certainly until you're close enough the zone to call Jersey Control. I am really keen on having a proper radar service all the way across.

2. Western Radar are another option who will happily give you a radar service when crossing in that area.
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#1693136
@defcribed - just be aware that Jersey cannot offer ANY radar service outside CAS. So, feel free to stay with Bournemouth/Solent/Plymouth Mil/Exeter for as long as you need that protection.

Wester Radar are officially FL100-FL195+ but have certification to give a radar service down to FL70 if descending. (The operation is not meant to muddy the waters by operating in LARS-land)

Finally, if you plan VFR or change to IFR, you will probably have your squawk changed from the 36xx range (VFR) to 12xx (IFR) which affects the Radar Data Safety Nets (such as MSAW/STCA)
#1693154
Thanks Alan, makes sense. They did say basic service until entering the zone - which is fine - but then they know where I am and I'm talking to them so that covers my engine failure paranoia for the few minutes between first calling them and entering the zone.

What I don't like is being dumped on coasting out and told to freecall London Info.

It was actually Jersey Control who suggested I call Western Radar when departing the zone. I hadn't known they were an option.

I was especially impressed with Bournemouth keeping me until a few miles north of the boundary - well outside their published area. I don't think Plymouth Military work weekends.
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#1693157
Yep, no Plymouth Mil at weekends, Friday afternoon, block Christmas holidays and for the school summer holidays!!

Western Radar is a funny one. They are always keen to help, bumping up their stats! But as said, if they are happy to offer a radar service then that works well.

Inbound wise, we can normally see you south of KATHY but often intermittent on the radar*. ORTAC is well over 40nm from Jersey’s airfield radar but we will often switch to Guernsey’s feed which has better coverage south of BHD/KATHY.

*at our below 3000ft
#1693163
AlanM wrote:*at our below 3000ft


In my humble opinion, one would have to be absolutely crackers to cross the channel that low in an SEP. You will have very little time in the event of an engine problem.

I ask for the highest available level taking into account weather, the base of Class A and aircraft capabilities. This weekend that meant FL80.

On departure I was less than impressed with Guernsey Approach giving me not above altitude 2000ft to the northern zone boundary. That is just dangerous. When I reached Fort Le Marchant with a further climb having been denied twice, I asked to orbit while they negotiated a sensible altitude with Jersey Control. One orbit later 4,000 feet was offered, and then unrestricted up to FL80 a few minutes later on handover to Jersey Control.
#1693164
I tend to cross the channel at around 8,000ft. I remember a continuous descent into Jersey after arriving at their zone boundary.

When departing they initially gave me a low altitude, but I requested something higher and eventually got it.
#1693167
defcribed wrote:
AlanM wrote:*at our below 3000ft


In my humble opinion, one would have to be absolutely crackers to cross the channel that low in an SEP. You will have very little time in the event of an engine problem.

On departure I was less than impressed with Guernsey Approach giving me not above altitude 2000ft to the northern zone boundary. That is just dangerous. When I reached Fort Le Marchant with a further climb having been denied twice, I asked to orbit while they negotiated a sensible altitude with Jersey Control. One orbit later 4,000 feet was offered, and then unrestricted up to FL80 a few minutes later on handover to Jersey Control.


You would be amazed at just how many aircraft transit in singles 2000-3000ft - direct to ORTAC. It is why the airway base was raised from 3500ft to FL55.

As for departing - I totally agree, 2000ft is low. Jersey is worse at 1000ft as the standard clearance. When on radar I almost always offer not above 2000ft before the tower launches the aircraft. Again, you will be amazed at how many stay at 1500ft! Not least because if you can maintain 3000ft or higher staying VMC you can transit Alderney without us having to coordinate thus making it a no-brainer.

I applaud your decision not to go north of the Fort until higher was offered. One thing to remember though is that it will depend on departures behind you, and a need to co/ordinate..... so ask on the ground for an unrestricted climb.

:pirat:
#1693172
AlanM wrote:..... so ask on the ground for an unrestricted climb.


Oh I did!

I asked the tower controller on the ground for higher when I got the initial clearance after starting up.

Then I asked Approach twice, first as soon as handed over and again when approaching the fort. On the second refusal I refused to go any further north until higher was approved.
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