FLYER Forums

I stand corrected, but the main point remains.

G

In the USA co-pilots never used to have to hold a type rating for jet operations, the captain was type rated and copilot received adequate training in the emergency procedures then signed off.

I am not sure if this is still the case in the USA, but I do recall this not being allowed / changed in Europe.

That has not been allowed in EU-land for a long time even if the aeroplane is on the 'N'

As every co-pilot is an accident or bad bout of food poisoning away from being Captain, the European position seems entirely sensible to me.

(And I don't believe that this is the case for FAAland either.l

G

There’s obviously a lot more to this than meets the eye.

A quick search shows that the defendant had an FAA Commercial based on an EASA ATPL. On that Commercial were type ratings for 4 aircraft, including the Falcon 2000, which would have been transferred from his EASA ATPL. In addition he also has an FAA Class 2 Medical which was in date at the time the alleged offence was committed.

So - as far as FAA licensing he was perfectly entitled to fly the aircraft, provided he wasn’t paid (he has that limitation on the FAA issued 61.75 Certificate).

So - I suspect he was appropriately licenced / certificated. He either forged

a) his EASA Medical

OR

b) his Annual recurrent training (required for any Jet rating to be valid)

My money’s on the latter.

Looking at age, times, etc - guy was 65 when offence was committed so no longer able to fly commercially (IE on an AOC as opposed to for a commercial carrier. No such restriction for Part NCC ops. Knowing the Falcons that operate in/around Oxford could have been using his FAA/EASA license operating on a validation for Manx/VP-B/C).

Ex RAF so presumably with a nice pension in the pocket; could have said **** it and stopped following the rules until he got caught. Nothing to loose other than a license he didn't need / had had enough of.

More to this than meets the eye.

Oxford Mail wrote:Paul Holroyd, of Le Vieux Beaumont, St Peter, Jersey, admitted co-piloting 64 flights – 40 in the UK and 17 to or from Oxford – without holding the correct documentation and forging documents.

My bold - and in my opinion the critical phrase.

You can accidentally let something lapse, forget to organise a renewal, fail to realise what you could do on what licence. You don't accidentally forge a document.

G

Yep. The forging bit is slightly odd. I don’t know the chap, but everyone is shocked here in Jersey, citing him as a wonderful chap who flew Lightnings etc.

Shame really.

The sketchy report offers little. But this story has not made the press here. In fact, none of my colleagues knew of the story until I showed them the link.

https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2019 ... for-pilot/

Paul Holroyd (67) of Le Vieux Beaumont, St Peter, appeared in Oxford Crown Court for sentence earlier this month after he admitted not having all of the correct certifications in place.
The Islander was co-piloting a US-registered Dassault Falcon 2000EX EASy private jet – worth up to $30million – between 14 May and 27 October 2017 when he committed the offence.
Now, the Civil Aviation Authority, which prosecuted Holroyd, said that although he held a licence to fly commercially, his ‘type-rating’ – needed to fly a particular model of plane – had not been kept up to date.
A spokesman for the CAA said: ‘We are determined to take action whenever necessary to protect members of the public, including prosecuting pilots who lack the appropriate qualifications to carry out flights.’

Typical of the CAA to go after the easy conviction, a quick ramp check, sorry sir your documents are not in order please come with us.

What about putting a stop to likes of the dodgy charters such as the Malibu that crashed in the channel, no chance because there was no paperwork to backup the dodgy charter so to much like hard work for the CAA.

Lockhaven wrote:Typical of the CAA to go after the easy conviction, a quick ramp check, sorry sir your documents are not in order please come with us.

What about putting a stop to likes of the dodgy charters such as the Malibu that crashed in the channel, no chance because there was no paperwork to backup the dodgy charter so to much like hard work for the CAA.

Or perhaps the CAA had intelligence of the 70 flights it appears flown under a licence that had been falsified, as opposed to someone flying a Malibu as a one off*

* I have no idea what happened in either cases..... but slagging off the CAA is a bit like being caught speeding and having a go at the police for Terrorist activity and serious crime. I don’t know the perpetrator but he seemed to be consciously incompetent here.

* I have no idea what happened in either cases..... but slagging off the CAA is a bit like being caught speeding and having a go at the police for Terrorist activity and serious crime. I don’t know the perpetrator but he seemed to be consciously incompetent here.

I certainly used to get annoyed at the CAA in the IOM at race time, they would come in and do ramp checks, Our company would be paying a lot of money to the CAA for an AOC, they would approach me on landing and ask if it was a commercial operation and when told yes go through everything to check all was in order, the cowboys who were operating illegal charters in single engines would just say no when asked the same question and mr CAA would then just walk away. I could never understand why they did not ask the passengers rather than the pilot?

whilst I'm not for one minute suggesting Mr Holroyd was right, he does actually seem to be more qualified, competent and current than another ex-RAF fast jet pilot who recently walked out of Court after causing significantly more harm.