FLYER Forums

AlanM wrote:[snip]Also, as I said at the start, do what we do here with full SERA rules. Only impose flight rules in the ATZ based on the METAR for inbounds (and outbounds).

A huge advantage the CICZ has is that it is a single controlling authority outside of the three ATZs, with good coordination to/from the ATZs, relatively low traffic levels, and weather which appears to be either IFR or VFR for 90+% of the time.

The mainland hodgepodge of umpty-zillion ANSPs, none of whom ever seem to talk to each other about VFR traffic, overlapping ATZs/CTRs, and weather which sits in the SVFR range for up to 30% of the time, means that the full SERA rules demonstrably do not work here for a significant portion of the year.

I hadn’t even realised there was an exemption... I’ve been trying to maintain the SERA cloud separation requirements in UK class D for the last few years.

The source of my confusion was a CAA web page - the first Google result when you search for ‘SERA VMC’ - which said:

Aircraft flying VFR in Class C, D or E airspace must remain 1500 m horizontally and 1000 ft. vertically away from cloud and in a flight visibility of at least 5 km at all times. The reduced minima for aircraft flying below 3000 ft. AMSL at 140 kts or less no longer apply.

The text above has been removed from the page recently (it was still there as of the end of March, and is still readable in Google’s cached version of the page).

I can’t find the document the online survey is asking questions about.

Thanks

Paul_Sengupta wrote:

AlanM wrote:Why on earth does the UK insist in having exemptions???

Because the original legislation isn't fit for purpose?

AlanM wrote:We introduced full SERA without derogations in the huge swathe of the Class D Channel Islands CTR up to FL80 and it seems to work well for overflights and inbounds/outbounds from the three airfileds.

Well, no, it doesn't, a friend of mine complained that he was held on the ground in good visible VMC conditions because of it in Jersey and it caused all sort of problems. He hasn't been back there since as it's too risky for him to be prevented from taking off due to this seemingly arbitrary rule.

If this wasn't how the rule should be applied, the controller on the day who refused to let him take off should be retrained.

@Paul_Sengupta - were you able to find any more information on this for me to investigate? (I did send a PM with my contact details)

Oh, sorry Alan, he was away in the US, I'll have to ping him.

These VFR minima in Class D will presumably affect all of EASA land. Are other countries' regulators consulting or is it not an issue to them?

PaulB wrote:These VFR minima in Class D will presumably affect all of EASA land. Are other countries' regulators consulting or is it not an issue to them?

The SERA rules are what the rest of EASA land has been used to for many decades. They are not changing. The Commission finally got fed up with the UK hanging on to its (more permissive) exception. No one else in EASA land can work out what the UK is making a fuss about.

So how do they make it work in the rest of EASA land or do they just accept the restrictions?


If, say you want a transit of some class D that, say, is from 1500' upwards and the cloud is reported as OVC020 than no VFR transit could be offered (but an SVFR one could)? Is that correct? What if the cloud was FEW020 (which could in practice be *very* FEW.) could a VFR transit be offered then as there my be no clouds above you at all (because they're all at least 1500m away laterally? ... or would it have to be SVFR?


Arrrggghhhh just realised... you can't have SVFR in a CTA.... can you?

PaulB wrote:just realised... you can't have SVFR in a CTA.... can you?

CTR only. Consider the origins of SVFR Clearance, i.e. a 'concession' to access and egress landing sites within control zones when weather conditions preclude flight in accordance with the Visual Flight Rules, yet without the requirement to comply with the Instrument Flight Rules. It was not originally intended for CTR 'transits'...

Thanks.... so how do those on the continent cope with VFR transits through D/E CTAs (as they seem to causing some consternation here.)

Different weather. Based on a small sample of METARS, UK weather seems to be in the SVFR range for up to 40% of the daytime. In other locations it's less than 10% of the time, switching from VFR to IFR much more rapidly.

I thought some of the Scandinavian countries would also be similar...

Although Canada, which sometimes has similar weather to the UK, has cloud clearance of 500ft in control zones:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/publications/en/TP2 ... 28E_31.pdf