[Red]

Nope not going on one of those, Its probably unreasonable but every time I see a picture of a max with its nose in the air I shudder

[riverrock]

Obviously RyanAir think "737 MAX" is now too toxic to use the name ... welcome the "GameChanger"
... and thinks (probably with good foundation) that most of their passengers are too stupid to notice.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/ryanair-set-receive-first-boeing-737-max-flightradar24-data-2021-06-16/

OC619

Do you think they've now struck a deal with Boeing to take the jets of their hands - so Boeing needs to pay to have Ryanair fly its aircraft, just like pilots need to pay to fly them?

[IhaveBeenThere]

What modifications were made to get the Max certified again. I know the fundamental weakness was the reliance on just the two probes. Surely a third and a voting system would be required ?

[kanga]

What modifications were made to get the Max certified again. I know the fundamental weakness was the reliance on just the two probes. Surely a third and a voting system would be required ?

AIUI, another fundamental weakness was that pilots were not told in 'type variant rating training' that the MCAS even existed, let alone what it was supposed to do and how it worked or might fail to. Boeing had allegedly told airline customers that crews who already had 737 ratings would require no flight nor simulator training, only a .ppt presentation.

[townleyc]

Presumably now it is a distinct type rating?

KE

[Flyingfemme]

Apparently not - the rating is aimed at the 737NG and "differences" training is now mandated (and properly defined for MAX pilots. Two hours in a MAX simulator............

[stevelup]

Turns out it was all one bloke's fault...

https://apnews.com/article/business-tex ... c80c8e4119

[Flyin'Dutch']

Turns out it was all one bloke's fault...

https://apnews.com/article/business-tex ... c80c8e4119

Perverse.

[eltonioni]

Really? Maybe in the 1930's with one man in a leather flying helmet, manhandling a stick while jotting notes.

But we're supposed to believe that the Boeing megacorp relied on one pilot telling fibs at pointy end for no obvious reason, and not a whole team of engineers and scientists recording, reading and interpreting telemetrics?

It doesn't wash, but if that really is what happened I'm a lot more worried now than I was before - flying on a Ryanair B737 on Tuesday.

[A4 Pacific]

Large corporations don’t err. They can’t. What happens is that individuals with specific roles, ignore the responsibilities with which they are legally charged. This individual was Boeing’s chief technical pilot on the Max program. Had he undertaken his duties honestly and diligently, his career may well have suffered, as might the economics of the 737MAX. But hundreds of lives could have been saved had he made a better call.

There can often be a conflict between what is required, to climb the greasy pole earning the big bucks, and one’s personal integrity. Even more so in an iconic American organisation that was clearly rotten to the core!

I know little about this specific aspect of the case, however from what is written in that piece, it would appear the individual concerned has good reason to fear for his future liberty. Let’s hope the legal system gets around to visiting anyone else who has the blood of hundreds on their hands.

[LowNSlow1]

Why the hell did the FAA allow Boeing to effectively self certify their systems?https://www.businessinsider.com/faa-let-boeing-self-regulate-software-believed-737-max-crashes-2019-3?r=US&IR=T

[Flyin'Dutch']

The whole 737 Max fiasco is a system failure of the whole FAA/Boeing set up and arrangements. No doubt that individuals will have pulled levers and taken decisions which have lead to it playing out the way it did, but to blame an individual and stick them in the klink seems to be a comfortable way to buy off the collective responsibility.

But similar has happened before and will happen again, much easier to scapegoat an or a few individual(s) than taking a hard look at the organisation that allowed it to happen.

Ad nauseam.

[skydriller]

The thing is @A4 Pacific , you say this guy signed off on things he shouldnt and go on to say:

There can often be a conflict between what is required, to climb the greasy pole earning the big bucks, and one’s personal integrity. Even more so in an iconic American organisation that was clearly rotten to the core!

If the organization was rotton, its not one individual, is it? And a few others higher up the chain should be held jointly accountable too, should they not, for fostering that sort of environment?

Just seems odd to be prosecuting one pilot, even if the chief pilot, as opposed to several people at Boeing and in the FAA.

Regards, SD..

[johnm]

That one individual could achieve what he is charged with indicates a serious systemic failure which has wider implications IMHO. An investigation of the FAA/Boeing relationship and testing/certification systems is needed.

[Josh]

The criminal legal system and models of organisational failure do not gel well.

This chap does not come well out of his own messages well but he should have plenty of company in the dock or not be there at all.