Page 23 of 25

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:05 pm
by Miscellaneous
@seanxair may be any number of reasons, risk of flying in bad weather, for example, remains the same.

@derekf , that's totally irrelevant. :wink:

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:11 pm
by defcribed
Miscellaneous wrote:
defcribed wrote:Some people have astoundingly poor judgement.

I have to say, defcribed, with the greatest respect your surprise did cause me to wonder about your judgement. :D Can you not see the inevitability of this sort of pressure/action and that's not considering the competent stick and rudder pilot that may be a little naive.

An ability to fly is not evidence of being able to handle paying passengers.


Who said I was surprised?! :lol:

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:58 pm
by GrahamB
As well as trial lessons, a flying club can offer, and charge for, ‘Air Experience’ flights to the general public. A PPL is permitted to conduct the flight.

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:08 pm
by derekf
GrahamB wrote:As well as trial lessons, a flying club can offer, and charge for, ‘Air Experience’ flights to the general public. A PPL is permitted to conduct the flight.

That's interesting - didn't know that. Will go look up references in case asked in future...

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:19 pm
by GrahamB
Article 6. 4a. (c) of EASA Air Ops derogates them from being commercial operations.

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:39 pm
by derekf
GrahamB wrote:Article 6. 4a. (c) of EASA Air Ops derogates them from being commercial operations.

Thanks - interesting same section as cost sharing 6.4a. (a)

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:54 pm
by Lefty
GrahamB wrote:Article 6. 4a. (c) of EASA Air Ops derogates them from being commercial operations.


The rules wrt air experience flights are as follows:
Any flying club or ATO May offer air experience flights as a mechanism to persuade people to sign up to learn to fly.

Offering air experience flights must be a minor proportion of the business and must not be a major contribution to the turnover of the club.

To offer air experience flights outside of club environment, you would need to use Commercial Pilots and have an AOC.

The flight can be conducted by any PPL that the club deems to be competent. Needless to say the flight must be conducted under the direct supervision of the club/ATO. Most clubs tend to use Instructors or CRI’s, but I have heard of clubs allowing experienced / highly trusted PPL’s.

All revenue from such flights must be retained within the club.

Hope this helps?

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:07 pm
by Paul_Sengupta
defcribed wrote:A PPL has been issued with a licence and can either be trusted to choose when/where/what/who they fly or they cannot. If they cannot then they should not have been given a licence. Reductio ad absurdum, why not place all PPLs under full-time ATO oversight and make every single flight subject to the sign-off of an instructor?


There was a suggestion that everyone flying from a field be subject to checkout from a CFI made on the forum fairly recently.

https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1665188#p1665188

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:29 am
by defcribed
Paul_Sengupta wrote:There was a suggestion that everyone flying from a field be subject to checkout from a CFI made on the forum fairly recently.

https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1665188#p1665188


Yep - there is a certain body of opinion that seems to have a fundamental problem with what I'd describe as 'PPL independence' - those who own an aeroplane (either alone or in a group) and don't have a great deal to do with instructors other than the required hour for revalidation.

Perhaps they feel that no-one should really be flying privately without an instructor somewhere having some sort of oversight.

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:02 am
by TLRippon
I agree, There isn't an FI let alone a CFI at many fields anyway.

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:23 am
by eltonioni
It wouldn't have prevented an illegal flight.

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:16 pm
by PeterMa
Have been discussing Wingly with a flying club owner this morning - it was surmised as ;

'It may be legal but that doesn't make it sensible or safe'

He (like a lot of clubs) doesn't allow his aircraft to be used for rental to PPLs for wingly type flights.

Any one who has 'been there' will realise the pressure and expectation from paying passengers on board (of any kind) can cause some really really poor and out of character decision making . Even those passengers openly state its ok to cancel etc can add pressure to not let them down.

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:26 pm
by johnm
The trouble with Wingly is the same trouble as with anything else, Facebook, Twitter, Forums, the WWW Internet etc. etc.. Whatever its aims it's open to abuse.

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:32 pm
by Flyin'Dutch'
I am fine with Wingly, it isn't for me but each to their own.

I once signed up for Project Propeller, it was weathered off that day but had been a bit of a will we or won't we.

Never signed up for it after that - did not enjoy the perceived pressure.

It is not that I don't like taking passengers, done hundreds of pax flights, including introduction flights to strangers but somehow feels different.

Re: Charters/Sharing Flights/Cost was Aircraft missing off Alderney

PostPosted:Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:34 pm
by mmcp42
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:I am fine with Wingly, it isn't for me but each to their own.

I once signed up for Project Propeller, it was weathered off that day but had been a bit of a will we or won't we.

Never signed up for it after that - did not enjoy the perceived pressure.

It is not that I don't like taking passengers, done hundreds of pax flights, including introduction flights to strangers but somehow feels different.


you may reconsider Project Propeller this year
flying into Coventry! :)
just a thought

I've done it for a couple of years
cancelled twice
no complaints from cargo!