Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
User avatar
By tomshep
#1672488
There are very few fatal flying accidents in the UK. Those that occur rob families and friends of loved ones.
The safety culture is ingrained in every aviator from the word go and we all take it seriously. That is a given.
The number of people who form an orderly lynch mob when something goes wrong is a disturbing side effect of a culture where a safer than Thou mentality is seen as a good thing. I have safety sense leaflets, Gasco, Safety Spot, Fourier's analyses, Sunny whatsername, The CAA and everybody else pontificating and slicing the world ever finer to save me from myself. Even then, with great coaching, a thousand hours or more and an immaculately looked after aircraft on a fine day, I can still come to grief as many far better pilots than me have done before. Training makes me safe but does clogging my head with more safety briefings and lectures than I can assimilate in a lifetime?
I came this way for pleasure. Last Sunday's sortie over snow was joy. Nobody ever stops learning, if they are wise but If it is considered necessary to ram the safety message down our throats ad nauseam, is it not more likely that many just glaze over and miss important things?
It's getting born what kills you in the end. I have been lucky enough not to lose friends flying but I have lost them to illness, drugs, drink, fags, motor cars, motorbikes, electricity and sheer old age. I miss them and mourn them but I would not sacrifice the invigoration of flying on the altar of safety because so many think it is "the most important thing." There is no gain once it reaches saturation point.
I want a more proportionate debate than "If one life is saved." That way lies well meaning tyranny. Risk assessments that have some basis in actual likelihood would be a start. The culture militates against it. (I used my own tools at work today for half an hour after signing off a six page risk assessment that took two people three days to compile but nobody died so it was well worth it. )
Too many seem to think that safety comes from stuffing the airframe with equipment and completely neglect the very reason why people over the years have studied and paid for the privilege of flight.
I have been taught to fly safely, to maintain the aircraft carefully and to be aware of danger.
Continuous awareness is part of every pilot's mindset. We call it airmanship.
Aviate, navigate and communicate, bretheren.
Flying isn't as safe as sitting in front of the TV.
I get it.
joe-fbs, Miscellaneous, Lockhaven and 25 others liked this
User avatar
By Lockhaven
#1672492
I do hope that you were wearing your Hi Viz vest when you wrote this, I mean keyboards can be dangerous.
User avatar
By mick w
#1672508
Miscellaneous wrote:Long may you continue to do so, Mick. :thumleft:

As long as dodging it is not to the detriment of living :D


It's because of the life I've lived . :lol:
Miscellaneous liked this
User avatar
By mick w
#1672515
Miscellaneous wrote::lol: :lol:

As long as you weren't crossing any water necessitating being outwith gliding distance. :twisted:


I may have a tale or two , for my friends in the next life ... hang on I'm an Atheist . :?
User avatar
By Cub
#1672521
I can assure you all that, from bitter personal experience of loosing close friends and even closer people as a result of aviation, that I will never stop striving to learn from my own and others mistakes. Nobody will stop me from speaking out if I feel there is a safer way to conduct the activity that we all love, in the faint hope that it may prevent others suffering the same pain I feel every day.
User avatar
By gaznav
#1672525
@tomshep

Sadly, I am not as fortunate as you...

I have been lucky enough not to lose friends flying but I have lost them to illness, drugs, drink, fags, motor cars, motorbikes, electricity and sheer old age.


I have lost over a dozen close friends and many others I knew in my profession. Even in GA I need a second hand to start counting those friends of mine that I have lost. However, the biggest tragedies for me are when others are killed who are not even partaking in the activity - that is my feeling on that.

So I embrace Flight Safety education and I encourage all others to do so as well. You are right, that at the recreational end it needs to remain ‘fun’ but never at the expense of safety. I have to admit I have witnessed some truly shocking attitudes in GA, by proportion, compared to those at the professional end. Indeed, there are two such cases going through the courts right now where several people lost their lives - one with an ex-mil aircraft and the other with a common SEP aircraft.

So like everything, everything in moderation but never ceased... :thumright:
Last edited by gaznav on Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AlanC liked this
User avatar
By Miscellaneous
#1672527
mick w wrote: ... hang on I'm an Atheist . :?

Best tell now then. :thumleft:

Cub wrote:...the same pain I feel every day.

Cub, I read and I feel as much as I can without knowing you, I simply don't have the vocabulary to express those thoughts and feelings and I know there are no words can ever make it any easier, particularly at this time :(
flybymike liked this
User avatar
By aerial
#1672535
Safety is always beneficial. Period.

Much of what you rail against is the outcome of:

People who have no concept of and cannot determine actual risk.

Missplaced fear of litigation.

Insurance stipulations.

Those in authority with other agendas eg. cost saving.

Bad legislation.
gaznav, Lockhaven, tomshep liked this
User avatar
By Human Factor
#1672547
I have lost them to illness, drugs, drink, fags, motor cars, motorbikes, electricity and sheer old age....


Never lost one to electricity. Tried myself once, although that was more lack of than because of. The rest, I mourn and always will.

I have no wish to waste my life but I have no intention of dying of boredom either.

Flying makes me better. Not better than you or better than the other bloke. Just better than I was yesterday. One day, maybe I’ll almost know all of it but the one truism I live with is that if I’m the the brightest guy in the room (especially in aviation), I’ve walked into the wrong room.

Apologies for being melancholy, just got back from beer and Spitfires (the movie).
G-BLEW, Lockhaven, G-JWTP and 2 others liked this
User avatar
By David Wood
#1672624
Indeed. Safety and Risk are not absolutes. A can be safer than B; C can be more risky than D. But nothing in this world is absolutely safe or absolutely risk-free.

To me it's all about our own safety/risk awareness (in other words, using our own training and experience to understand the risk profile in a given set of circumstances) and then balancing that risk profile against our appetite for risk (in other words, how much risk we are prepared to accept on a particular occasion). These are all moving reference points, moving from day to day and sometimes hour to hour. And they give different results for all of us.

For example, I am happy in general to fly a SEP at night, or in IMC with a low cloud-base. Others may not be. There's no right and wrong in that conflict of views. It's just that my understanding of the risks involved balanced against my personal appetite for risk sets the cursor at a particular point, whilst others are different. Vive la difference.

What is beyond question is that the more experience we accrue, especially when we push the envelope and acquire the judgement borne of experience, the more likely we are to accurately assess the risks involved and to have a clearer perception of our own risk-tolerance.
Miscellaneous, lobstaboy, Nick and 3 others liked this