Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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#1672622
rikur_ wrote:
low&slow wrote:What I am asking is what exactly would the new SkyDemon (or Foreflight) say if I was in, or near, these aircraft:

Joking aside - does it just call out specific traffic, or will it generate the 'multiple contacts in the xxxx area, possible gliders' that a LARS service would provide?
A lot of time with a real LARS service it's about avoiding an area of likely conflict before coming into a specific conflict that's important.


Rather hope it does not, that would probably be annoying. A verbal warning to bring attention to a specific close proximity/collision risk, as per Flarm going red (and when closer, flashing & alarming) would be ideal; verbally advising on all traffic would lead to Oscar Fox Fox mode being selected on the audio! Gaggles etc can be seen on screen anyway from the Flarm return. The 'talking lady' in the MGL EFIS box now has a 'mute' button in the panel, to silence her for a while, to stop her from over-speaking ATC etc when issuing audible warnings on traffic proximity (usually not in conflict).
Nick liked this
#1672625
Shoestring Flyer wrote:What happens with the voice and vusual warning alerts when in a very busy circuit?...Do they become overwelming to the point you have to turn it off?

It's a bit early to say. The beta version carrying the functionality has only been out for a week or so and has already been refined once with an update.

I've only managed one flight with it so far, and that was with the first version; I used it on a flight to Turweston, arriving at a busy time, and it was overwhelming so I unplugged it. Tim released the upgrade before I was able to provide him any feedback. I'm open minded about it, but I suspect there is more situational awareness to be gained from listening to radio calls when close to or in the circuit than SD manfully struggling to keep up with a very dynamic picture (and only some of the traffic being detected anyway).

One can test it in sim mode with 'spawned' traffic, but it's almost impossible to mimic the behaviour of traffic joining, in and departing the circuit. while executing a perfect OHJ!

My expected mode of operation will be use the voice warning as a prompt to glance at my traffic device*,(mounted at near eye level to one side of straight forward, running SD in traffic radar mode, with a small cable plugged into the headset volume control box), which in turn will indicate where to look for the traffic.

*old iPhone about to be nicked from my daughter's junk drawer. Note to Pete Spencer - you can do this without using up one of the two SD mobile licences.
#1672626
Both those sorts of refinements are on the list.

A gaggle of gliders such as the one in that video would currently be treated separately. It’ll clearly be shown on the map and any sensible powered pilot would stay clear of it. If you powered on through or close to it, no spoken output or ground-based controller in the world is going to keep you safe, it’s eyes out constantly presumably! I have no gliding experience. The obvious potential enhancement in SkyDemon is to treat them all as one lump if sufficiently far away.

We’ve put some thought into what we do as you approach your destination airfield but those thoughts aren’t likely to turn into code in the first release. I personally like the idea of verbally advising the pilot how many aircraft are known about in the circuit, how many might also be joining, and notifying them if anyone on the ground lines up on the runway. But of course we are open to suggestions.
G-JWTP, T67M, bilko2 and 1 others liked this
#1672644
What SkyDemon have achieved is amazing. This type of alerting scales well with increasing traffic (i.e. not subject to controller workload) and is cheaper than say increasing the number of controller positions providing traffic information to everybody in the area.

Is there a longer term plan to do data up-link from ground based radar heads to get an even fuller picture and move controllers onto providing sequencing and separation services in only the busiest and complex of areas?
kanga, T67M, malcolmfrost liked this
#1672669
Dave Phillips wrote:Yes it does, I've used it.


I don't doubt it, but you clearly have -not- tried the new SkyDemon stuff otherwise you wouldn't be comparing them.

Pong and Call of Duty are both computer games. So they are the same in that respect, and that's about as similar as the FF and SD voice subsystems are.
#1672674
I think Tim could have worded things slightly better. 'Primitive' is obviously going to get someone's back up. But it's clear the two are very different things.

As an aside, I do hope that all the rapid developments in EC and traffic display/information are not going to reduce the need for anyone to provide a decent joined-up LARS across the UK? Nice side effect huh, if you're concerned about spending money that you can't recover from anyone on radar services?
#1672684
Shoestring Flyer wrote:What happens with the voice and vusual warning alerts when in a very busy circuit?...Do they become overwelming to the point you have to turn it off?

I have been leisure flying with either a Garmin or Avidyne traffic system for the past 11 years. It's an aid.

In the circuit you must fly it visually, you cannot rely on the accuracy of traffic information with all of the turns and changes in altitude by all aircraft not just yours.

It can get noisy, certainly not overwhelming, but you soon learn to filter out what you don't need. And there is always the mute button, on the stick in my aircraft.
#1672711
Similar speed of development on the Mods S transponder with separate ADSB EC device 'trial' would also be welcome.
.....and of course the ridiculous STC requirements for certified aircraft to fit ADSB that are holding things back.
Where are we with the CS-STAN update to allow voluntary ADSB fitment?

All very well having whizz bang EFB functionality, but there are still many aircraft not transmitting a GPS position.
#1672736
Straight Level wrote:.....and of course the ridiculous STC requirements for certified aircraft to fit ADSB that are holding things back..


The STC for connecting a Trig TT31 to certified sources is far from ridiculous. The STC itself is free, providing the TT31 is at the correct software level.

I've just had it done. It cost £150 for the software upgrade, connection and configuration of the 430W and Trig, and doing the paperwork for the Flight Manual Supplement. Basically a couple of hours work all in.
pete2052 liked this
#1672747
GrahamB wrote:
Straight Level wrote:.....and of course the ridiculous STC requirements for certified aircraft to fit ADSB that are holding things back..


The STC for connecting a Trig TT31 to certified sources is far from ridiculous. The STC itself is free, providing the TT31 is at the correct software level.

I've just had it done. It cost £150 for the software upgrade, connection and configuration of the 430W and Trig, and doing the paperwork for the Flight Manual Supplement. Basically a couple of hours work all in.


I have a KT74.
Why should it be low cost and simple for a Trig and not a KT74? (Trig even make the guts for the KT74).
Both certified transponders connecting to certified GPS sources.
The STC doesn't exist for my transponder/GPS combo. What is the technical difference that generates such a issue for me and not you? Answer =none, it is the ridiculous STC paperwork system.
#1672755
Even in FAA land, an STC is required to output 1090 ES ADSB, so EASA not unique in this regard.

The FAA STC is #SA00765DE. Have you enquired as to whether BK are pursuing a similar EASA STC on behalf of all?
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