Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Sooty25
#1712793
KeithM wrote:More questions, I know, but if the pilot was overcome in the manner suggested one might expect that the pilot’s body would be in the aircraft, along with that of the passenger especially with the exit door being rearward of the pilot’s seat and closer to the passenger than the pilot?

Maybe we will never know.


From the underwater images, I don't think he left the cockpit by choice.
By patowalker
#1712796
2Donkeys wrote:The pilot's colour-blindness has been publicly reported in numerous places. HERE is just one example.

The AAIB have commented in their interim report that licensing continues to be a focus of their investigation.


Yet FAA records show he had a valid Second Class medical without a "Not valid for night flying or by signal control" restriction.
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By stevelup
#1712829
Aforementioned BBC Article wrote:Retired pilot and aviation safety commentator Terry Tozer said the finding was "a surprise", adding: "It shows you can never tell what the root cause of an accident is until the investigators have dug into the nitty gritty.

"How and why did the carbon monoxide get in? Presumably through the exhaust system… the fumes get into the ventilation system."

Mr Tozer said he had never encountered anything similar before and would not expect carbon monoxide poisoning to be a big risk on such an aircraft.

He added: "It's not like a car where you can open the windows. It can creep up on you, and that could be a slow process.


WT actual F?! Why do most of us carry CO detectors if this isn't a concern.
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By Lockhaven
#1712919
mick w wrote:" and now it would appear that the aircraft was badly maintained too "

Unless of course , the Exhaust failed in flight inside the Cabin Heater Shroud , & released Fumes into the System ?.


Not necessarily from the aircraft engine exhaust, if I remember correctly the cabin heat is supplied by a fuel burning Janitrol heater.
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By mick w
#1712926
Lockhaven wrote:
mick w wrote:" and now it would appear that the aircraft was badly maintained too "

Unless of course , the Exhaust failed in flight inside the Cabin Heater Shroud , & released Fumes into the System ?.


Not necessarily from the aircraft engine exhaust, if I remember correctly the cabin heat is supplied by a fuel burning Janitrol heater.


Yes , yet another exampe of it not neccessararily being 'poor maintenance'. :thumright:
By KeithM
#1712944
Sooty25 wrote:
KeithM wrote:More questions, I know, but if the pilot was overcome in the manner suggested one might expect that the pilot’s body would be in the aircraft, along with that of the passenger especially with the exit door being rearward of the pilot’s seat and closer to the passenger than the pilot?

Maybe we will never know.


From the underwater images, I don't think he left the cockpit by choice.


From my recollection of the photographs (I couldn’t find all of them this time) the fuselage, as reported at the time was “largely in one piece”.

Did the nose section break away?

Just seems that if the pilot had succumbed to any poisoning and this explains any loss of control, that he might have been found in his seat. With my limited knowledge of the Malibu, entry and exit would seem to be easier for passengers than for front seat occupants.

I am not suggesting anything suspicious but it is just another puzzle.
By patowalker
#1712945
stevelup wrote:No thanks - don't want ridiculing by you lot ;)

But seriously, how can any pilot not be aware of the risks associated with CO in light aircraft? I've just read his bio and he's an ATPL with 20 years experience.


Have you considered he may have been misquoted? After all he did go on to say "It's not like a car where you can open the windows. It can creep up on you, and that could be a slow process.
It's odourless so you wouldn't necessarily know you were being fed these fumes unless you had a detection system - but that isn't mandatory for this type of aircraft."
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By GrahamB
#1712953
Lockhaven wrote:
mick w wrote:" and now it would appear that the aircraft was badly maintained too "

Unless of course , the Exhaust failed in flight inside the Cabin Heater Shroud , & released Fumes into the System ?.


Not necessarily from the aircraft engine exhaust, if I remember correctly the cabin heat is supplied by a fuel burning Janitrol heater.

I thought they used turbo bleed air, with an exhaust shroud around that?
#1713003
As an aside, the venerable VW Beetle had a jacketed-exhaust warm air heating system.....The exhaust- pipe was massively thick, one piece and the blown air-system ensured any leakage to welds or joints outwith the confines of the jacket would be blown away to dissipate in the slipstream. the air-inlet was high on the engine-coverand unlikely to suck in fumes. I'd expect no less engineering integrity in a light aircraft.

Certain models such as the Variant 411 were available with a self-contained cabin-heater (Eberspascher?) which could be set on a timer to preheat the car in cold weather. I never read of any motorists crashing and dying due to CO leakage from these.

Another whole can of worms has opened. will we see costly new oversight requirements for long-term resident, foreign-registered aircraft? :(
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