[ArrowStraight]

Sooty25

My opinion is that professional football has a much greater effect worldwide and far beyond just aviation. Allowing (and pundits regularly praising) a thing that is unbelievably called "a professional foul" is immoral and encourages young and old aficionados by the billion to break day to day rules whenever they feel like it.

[Sooty25]

Sooty25

My opinion is that professional football has a much greater effect worldwide and far beyond just aviation. Allowing (and pundits regularly praising) a thing that is unbelievably called "a professional foul" is immoral and encourages young and old aficionados by the billion to break day to day rules whenever they feel like it.

Oh I agree, and if the passenger hadn't been a football player, this AAIB report wouldn't have been linked to by a single newspaper. This thread would also have probably fizzled away into obscurity by now as well.

[Pete L]

Everyone breaks some of the rules of society, and I think it's getting worse. I want to riff on that for longer but not on an aviation thread - other than that the sheer complexity of our regulation is almost encouraging it.

This accident feels like rules were broken for the money - and possibly friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend rather than wilfulness.

[Sooty25]

the irony is, that if there is one industry that can afford to charter proper aircraft, it is football!

30 seconds on google and I've got 3 quote of under 6000Euros each way for that flight in a Citation. Is the football industry really this stupid/tight?

https://www.privatefly.com/private-jet-charter/estimate-prices.html?flightSearch=lKdnjcVIpV0=

Grey charters only exist because people call for them. How much was this charter? How much did they really stand to save?

[eltonioni]

Is the football industry really this stupid/tight?

Yes. It's full of young lads with loads of money and old lads trying to take it off them. Mates rates is just a way of keeping the two groups close to each other.

[IMCR]

Sooty25 - you raise a very good point.

It was said earlier that the punters have no reason to be aware of the regulations. While this is true of an entirely unsuspecting punter, a football club regulalry engaged in this business, should have made it their business to be aware. A number of businesses I am involved with regularly charter, and in every case, their charters are carefully vetted.

[patowalker]

Grey charters only exist because people call for them. How much was this charter? How much did they really stand to save?

You have missed an important point. The club was not involved in arranging the flight and was unaware of the details. Sala wanted to say goodbye to his mates, so the trip was a private matter. Unfortunately, Willie Mackay offered to provide the means of transport.

[defcribed]

Sala wanted to say goodbye to his mates, so the trip was a private matter. Unfortunately, Willie Mackay offered to provide the means of transport.

Willie Mackay is a football agent dealing with top-level clubs and players. For him to be ignorant of the legalities of chartering aircraft is neither believable nor acceptable.

[eltonioni]

Sala wanted to say goodbye to his mates, so the trip was a private matter. Unfortunately, Willie Mackay offered to provide the means of transport.

Willie Mackay is a football agent dealing with top-level clubs and players. For him to be ignorant of the legalities of chartering aircraft is neither believable nor acceptable.

I don't know the legalities of chartering an aircraft and I've got a pilot's license with more privs than Sala's pilot. That's what travel agents are for. Maybe.

[patowalker]

Sala wanted to say goodbye to his mates, so the trip was a private matter. Unfortunately, Willie Mackay offered to provide the means of transport.

Willie Mackay is a football agent dealing with top-level clubs and players. For him to be ignorant of the legalities of chartering aircraft is neither believable nor acceptable.

It was not the first time he had difficulties observing legalities.

Edit: https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... la-cardiff

[chrisbl]

There has been many a time where I have not done a training flight in our C152 because to meet the school rules about fuel on landing, we would have been overweight at take off.

Is there a difference from MTOW for landing if so never seen it in POH.

What I was referring to was not a POH issue but a Flying Order Book issue which forms part of the basis documents for an ATO.

When we do skills tests they are done in accordance with the regulations and the school rules /FOB.

The solution is not to break the rules but, either I lose weight or be replaced with a skinny instructor and or restrict the size of students.

[chrisbl]

There has been many a time where I have not done a training flight in our C152 because to meet the school rules about fuel on landing, we would have been overweight at take off.

Strict adherence to that rule would have closed down my original flying school overnight.

Perhaps the school needed to review its rules rather than allow them to broken.

[flybymike]

Perhaps like countless other schools they preferred to remain in business.

[defcribed]

I don't know the legalities of chartering an aircraft and I've got a pilot's license with more privs than Sala's pilot. That's what travel agents are for. Maybe.

Really? You don't know that the charter operator needs an AOC and the pilot needs a commercial license?

Sorry - perhaps I wasn't clear. When I said knowing the legalities I didn't mean the details, I meant understanding the basic over-arching premise that you cannot just pay a PPL to transport a passenger in a random aircraft.

[patowalker]

When I said knowing the legalities I didn't mean the details, I meant understanding the basic over-arching premise that you cannot just pay a PPL to transport a passenger in a random aircraft.

Mackay did not just pay a PPL to transport a passenger in a random aircraft.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... la-cardiff