[SteveC]

I see on another site that ITV are looking for anyone with experience on the PA46 ? I thought SteveC used to fly one?

It is not prudent for me to participate in this discussion.

I am indeed a PA46 Examiner with significant time on type to answer your comment.

[Josh]

Ice bridging was an issue believed to have occurred on early DC-3 inflatable boots due to the slow inflation rate and low pressure of supplied bleed air. It has become one of those received wisdom/myths passed around as something that affects all pneumatically de-iced aircraft.

The NTSB have long been campaigning to bust this particular myth - see here

[G-BLEW]

And I am rated on the PA46 so know its capabilities

I'm genuinely not being aggravating, but isn't a piston PA46 just SEP(land)?

It is now, there was a time when it wasn't.

Ian

[Dusty_B]

It cannot be a perfectly legit commercial operation by virtue of being N registered a single engine piston aircraft and operating in Europe.

Thanks, I wasn't aware - regs for commercial ops are not my forte.

Surprisingly restrictive, to my uneducated mind. Are you saying that no SEP can carry paying passengers under any circumstances? Just an N-reg thing, or EASA too?

N-reg aside, in the UK, it is possible to get an AOC for SEP CAT. However, the limitations are strict:

For A-to-B flights:
- Flights must be day VFR only.
- Only single-engine piston aircraft under 2,000 kg Maximum Total Weight Authorised (MTWA) to operate on AOC.
- A to B operations restricted to points within mainland UK.
- The AOC may be issued with a limited but seasonal validity period depending upon the requirement.
- An operating licence is required.

For A-to-A flights in larger aircraft:
- Flights must be day VFR only.
- Only applicable to aircraft not exceeding 5,000 kg Maximum Take-Off Weight (MTOW).
- Flights are restricted in radius of operation of not more than 50 nautical miles (aeroplanes) or 25 nautical miles (helicopters) from the aerodrome. Application to operate outside of this area may be considered and is likely to incur additional costs.
- The AOC may be issued with a limited but seasonal validity period depending upon the requirement

[Lockhaven]

@Dusty_B

Thank you for the above I am aware of these regs but was going to leave them out of the discussion as they are more relevant to pleasure flight type of operations not the type of aircraft/flight under discussion here.

[defcribed]

I think it's interesting, because where I was going with this is:

Why is the CPL training done in an Arrow (or similar) when it's almost impossible to fly such an aircraft in an actual commercial operation? Or at least, a passenger carrying commercial operation.

[Bathman]

Or alternatively done in a MEP. When it's impossible to fly such an aircraft in a commercial operation.

The FAA none longer require CPL skills test to me done in wobbly prop or retractable gear.

As was the case in the UK pre 2000 (ish)

[plus7g]

Or alternatively done in a MEP. When it's impossible to fly such an aircraft in a commercial operation.

Was this a a tongue in cheek remark ? Plenty of Piper Navajos and Chieftans to mention a couple. out there......

[flybymike]

I think that the whole argument in favour of single engine SET operations rests on their increased reliability over MEP.

[Bathman]

No not tongue in check at all. My not very local MEP operators terms off its AOC require 50 hours PIC MEP before you can work for them.

And as far as I know it's the same or similar for operators of MEP's

[ganzic]

Looking at the wx it was flying through yesterday , VFR was not possible on that route to begin with.

1400m BR 1200SCT sais it all. Moisture will stick to the aircraft like magnet, in just 5 minutes the aircfraft will be unflyable.

I can only guess that from 2300ft they stalled and went straight down.
Although it looks like the aircraft has boots fitted, condition of those is not known.

Could be loss of control too, night imc...

Sounds like grey charter, a wingly or skyuber type of operation.

[avtur3]

BBC now broadcasting the actual voice messages sent by the player from the aircraft ...

It makes for really uncomfortable listening ... It may help the investigation but it is very disturbing to hear the voice knowing the outcome within minutes of the message being sent.

[johnm]

@avtur3 I agree and wondered if his comments reflected ice coming off the wings

[KeithM]

Power changes can also be clearly heard in the background which might also tell a tale.

Very eerie and very sad indeed and I, too, sense that something is very wrong about this whole event. Time will tell.

[G-BLEW]

BBC now broadcasting the actual voice messages sent by the player from the aircraft ...

It makes for really uncomfortable listening ... It may help the investigation but it is very disturbing to hear the voice knowing the outcome within minutes of the message being sent.

I'm not convinced the aircraft was airborne when that message was recorded, perhaps on the ground/at the hold at Nantes?

Ian