[flybymike]

Distinct changes in engine pitch.
Could have been an engine run up I suppose but didn’t really sound like a typical run up.

[G-BLEW]

I thought it sounded like coming to a stop at the hold - but the only thing that matters is keeping an open mind.

Ian

[KeithM]

I'm not convinced the aircraft was airborne when that message was recorded, perhaps on the ground/at the hold at Nantes?

Ian

Fair point. I imagine, though, that it should be possible to establish the facts on that matter if it hasn’t been done already.

[eltonioni]

I must admit that having had a think after my previous know-nothing comment about carb' heat it did occur to me that they were still on the ground. The message will be time stamped so the authorities should already know the answer.

Some BALPA chap was just on LBC ( is he one of us? He stole my IMC instructors line about going up for a think ) and gave a good fist about what might and might not have happened. The media are quite ignorantly implying a lot into the pilots joke about being rusty / high on the ILS into Nantes which IMHO isn't necessarily indicative of anything alarming in itself, but Mr BALPA had done an FAA search on the pilot and couldn't find an IR, which is alarming.

[G-JWTP]

Having read through most of the posts in other places and those here I am left with a distinct unease over much of this.

If you accept that, there is a 'chain of events' that lead to an accident.

Then, at present , it appears to me, that 'this chain' started months if not years ago.

It is depressingly sad.

G-JWTP

[Freeflight]

The flight could easily have been provided as a courtesy from a grateful party to the club transfer transaction. It makes sense to keep in with footballers (on both sides of the channel) who may provide future business opportunities.

Mark McKay has admitted to booking the aircraft on Sala's behalf. In a multitude of ways this is illegal grey charter, pure and simple. Nobody 'as a mate' flies from Nantes to Cardiff for nothing. Police should at least be questioning McKay on from whom and via what channels he booked the flight. The FAA will be taking a particular interest in this as it comes under their jurisdiction albeit also in EU airspace. If a private arrangement with someone he knew had a plane, that's one thing, if via any Wingly-type platform that is another.

[PaulB]

Some BALPA chap was just on LBC......

Did anyone hear the piece on the Jeremy Vine Radio 2 show yesterday? He certainly did his best to make GA (small planes flown by amateurs) sound as dangerous as he could in the bit I heard.

[johnm]

I'm really at a loss with this, two minutes Googling gets a list of operators they could easily afford with very capable aircraft and crew

[Dangerman]

I am wondering if weight and balance might have played a part in all of this (in addition to all the other bad decisions which led up to it).

There are a few bits and pieces of information which I have seen which don't really make sense (and which might of course not even be true). Three attempts to takeoff (which could, of course, just as easily be someone misconstruing the fact that it needed three attempts to start the engine). A third passenger who didn't go in the end (who could of course just as easily be a driver helping with the luggage).

But the thing that struck me was that this was a footballer AND HIS BELONGINGS being flown to Cardiff. That for me implies at least a bit more than a suitcase and one item of hand luggage. I wonder if there was indeed supposed to have been a third passenger, who got offloaded when it became obvious they were badly overweight because the footballer had brought along a lot more luggage than they were expecting and they "couldn't say no" (and they had perhaps already filled the tanks and couldn't do anything about that). An aircraft at maximum weight would then also be a lot more susceptible to problems with icing.

Pure supposition on my part of course, but just wondering if it could perhaps make the other weird bits of information fit a bit better.

[Dangerman]

I'm really at a loss with this, two minutes Googling gets a list of operators they could easily afford with very capable aircraft and crew

Absolutely - this is the bit which I find saddest about the whole thing. Everyone involved could easily have afforded to pay a bit extra for a sensible aircraft for this trip, and apparently the club had offered to arrange it but were turned down (presumably because the footballer didn't want to offend the person who had already offered him the flight). The money involved would have been absolutely nothing in the context of the transfer fee, the player's earnings, and the agent's commission on the deal.

[Miscellaneous]

I'm really at a loss with this, two minutes Googling gets a list of operators they could easily afford with very capable aircraft and crew

That's easily addressed.

There was never a question of shall we opt for this cheap risky option, or a safer, more expensive jet option.

It was; I'll organise a flight, I need a flight…

No thought of options elected being risky.

The idea there was an affordability, or cost saving consideration may be the flaw in the thinking?

[patowalker]

I'm not convinced the aircraft was airborne when that message was recorded, perhaps on the ground/at the hold at Nantes?

Ian

Neither am I, and my first language is (Argentine) Spanish. The English translations of the audio are misleading.

The yawing, and slurring speech, indicate he is tired, not anxious. "I was here in Nantes ... " and "I'm now on the plane" suggests to me they are still on the ground.

dead = dead tired
this aircraft is falling to pieces = this aircraft is tatty
brothers = friends

"Dad, how scared I am" = most likely refers to the flight ahead. He is addressing friends, so 'Dad' in that context is the equivalent of 'Mamma mia', in my view.

The investigators should be able to establish when the message was sent

[PaulB]

This morning’s “Metro” News has this front page



The headline apparently refers to comments made by the pilot on his Facebook page about the ILS at Nantes.

(Apologies for no link, but I read the article on the newspaper’s app and the copy link bit doesn’t seem to work)

[Miscellaneous]

@PaulB I think there's danger of being drawn in to the 'Red Top' thinking here.

Apparently he had a FB exchange with a, so called, friend saying he was rusty on the ILS (presumably in to Nantes), IE a little high.

In itself not worthy of a that attention grabbing distorted front page headline, unless of course the intention is only to maximise sales.

That headline, as printed, I certainly don't consider worthy of this thread,.

[Rob P]

One would guess his last words before -
"the doomed flight" were

"Nxxxxx cleared take off"

Rob P