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Dave, can you tell if the other NAVAIDS are in use?

CloudHound wrote:Dave, can you tell if the other NAVAIDS are in use?

On the 430, the nav is selected to 113.50 which is FTM VOR, some 50nm NE and the first 'waypoint' one would expect on that route. VLOC is selected but the associated CDI doesn't appear to have a signal yet. The standby Nav freq, 116.75, doesn't really make sense and doesn't belong to anything in either Portugal or Spain (not even DME pairings).

NavCom 2 (I think its a King KX155) appear to be on, as does the ADF and DME but you can make-out any freq etc as the displays aren't complete (possibly something to do with the camera shuttering).

The Transponder (GTX 328 or 330) is being interrogated. I think the code, 3311 is the FIS code (equivalent of 1177 in the UK). I'm not 100% sure on this but the number rings a bell.

The turn coordinator isn't flagged and appears to agree with the attitude indicator.

Is the ALT warning light on?

Yes the Alt Warning light is certainly on. You can see the panel much more much clearly if you click on the Twitter pic. in Dave’s post.

According to a Pprune post the Telegraph reports that they were discussing with ATC a re-routing just before the accident.

If they were able to do this 3 hours later (according to Dave’ s calculations) presumably they either solved the Alternator problem or load shed most of the electrics...

Interestingly, the Pitot Heat is selected off. I would imagine they would have needed electrical power for this later in the flight.

I find it grimly and sadly ironic that the tag dangling from the windscreen centre strut is for an insurer's claims hot-line number.

Is it only me that is wondering why tweet a photo containing (amongst everything else) an alternator warning light illuminated as though it was a holiday snap without commenting on the warning light?. Both are experienced pilots. Does not that indicate they consider it a non issue (for whatever reason).

Other possibilities
completely coincidentally it came on shortly before the tweeted so had not seen it yet, but that is quite a coincidence.

Whenever they spotted it and in support of the "they thought it was a non issue" is that they continued with the flight: - an earlier poster identified this pic was taken nearer the start. Would experienced pilots continue a long flight to destination with a serious alternator problem for most of the trip? - seems unlikely.

We’ll never know for sure, but I would suggest that at the time of this photo, they hadn’t realised they had an alternator failure. If the had, then surely they would have turned off all of their power hungry avionics, especially the transmitting devices such as transponder, DME and the strobes. Perhaps just leaving the 430 active. That they hadn’t turned any of these off, suggests the hadn’t noticed the ALT failure.

When I had an ALT failure (in VMC above a solid low cloud layer) I agreed with ATC that I would switch off all electrics and would just turn on one radio every 10 minutes to give them a position and status report. I then had enough battery power left for the approach and landing.

I’m left uneasy with that picture, were I flying where they were my panel would have looked quite different....

Of course, an ALT warning light doesn't always mean an ALT failure. Maybe they had established that it was a false indication.
Is there an ammeter or voltmeter visible in the photo to confirm this?

Boxkite wrote:Of course, an ALT warning light doesn't always mean an ALT failure. Maybe they had established that it was a false indication.
Is there an ammeter or voltmeter visible in the photo to confirm this?

Yep, Ammeter at the bottom just down and left of the undercarriage position lights. It appears to be reading at/close-to zero. For those who don't know Pipers, the ammeter only measures the current being drawn from the alternator - it should always indicate a positive figure. If you have an alternator failure, it would indicate zero, unlike other manufacturers' systems where an alternator failure would often be indicated by a negative figure (draw from battery).

Agree, the Ammeter does look like it is reading zero.

Someone remarked that there was quite a time lapse between the picture taken and the accident time.

When I had an alt failure in our shareoplane the first thing I did was to inform ATC in case I lost power for the radio.