Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By riverrock
#1664306
Legally familiarisation training is required for a new aircraft. However depending on lots of factors, that can be simply a quick glance at a POH or chat with someone.
Differences training is required by an instructor for specific characteristics.

In introducing a new group member, other things may be as important such as booking system, paperwork, ethos.

Up to a group how they wish to do a checkout. Up to the pilot how they do familiarisation training. Ideal if those align.
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By Dave W
#1664369
FCL.710

FCL.710 Class and type ratings — variants
(a) In order to extend his/her privileges to another variant of aircraft within one class or type rating,
the pilot shall undertake differences or familiarisation training...


GM1 FCL.710 Class and type ratings — variants. Differences and familiarisation training
(a) Differences training requires the acquisition of additional knowledge and training on an
appropriate training device or the aircraft.
(b) Familiarisation training requires the acquisition of additional knowledge.
User avatar
By defcribed
#1664378
Dave W wrote:FCL.710

FCL.710 Class and type ratings — variants
(a) In order to extend his/her privileges to another variant of aircraft within one class or type rating,
the pilot shall undertake differences or familiarisation training...


GM1 FCL.710 Class and type ratings — variants. Differences and familiarisation training
(a) Differences training requires the acquisition of additional knowledge and training on an
appropriate training device or the aircraft.
(b) Familiarisation training requires the acquisition of additional knowledge.


Thanks. Pleased to see it clarifies that 'familiarisation training' need be nothing more than doing some reading. I wonder if the terminology is optimal, because in aviation the word training tends to imply and instructor - or at least it does to me.
By riverrock
#1664383
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 8-20160408
FCL.710  wrote:FCL.710 Class and type ratings — variants

(a)

In order to extend his/her privileges to another variant of aircraft within one class or type rating, the pilot shall undertake differences or familiarisation training. In the case of variants within a type rating, the differences or familiarisation training shall include the relevant elements defined in the operational suitability data established in accordance with Part-21.

(b)

If the variant has not been flown within a period of 2 years following the differences training, further differences training or a proficiency check in that variant shall be required to maintain the privileges, except for types or variants within the single-engine piston and TMG class ratings.

(c)

The differences training shall be entered in the pilot’s logbook or equivalent record and signed by the instructor as appropriate.




GM1 FCL.710 wrote:GM1 FCL.710 Class and type ratings — variants
Differences and familiarisation training
(a) Differences training requires the acquisition of additional knowledge and
training on an appropriate training device or the aircraft.
(b) Familiarisation training requires the acquisition of additional knowledge.


The question is what is a "variant". I understand that this is an aircraft with any sort of different designation than a previous aircraft (so different engine, avionics, model number, manufacturer etc). So unless they are two aircraft which rolled out of the factory beside each other with an identical spec, with identical modifications and maintenance on them then "familiarisation training" is required. Note that the LAA treats every individual aircraft as unique.

Now familiarisation training could be as simple as a 5 minute chat with someone with knowledge of that aircraft - it doesn't have to be onerous!
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By Dave W
#1664388
To answer the "What is a Variant?" question:

Explanatory Notes
EASA type rating and licence endorsement list — flight crew


Aircraft variants
1. Aircraft within class ratings
Aircraft within class ratings do not have associated OSD in accordance with Part-21. The ‘EASA type
rating and licence endorsement lists — flight crew’ provide categories of class ratings — such as SEP,
MEP, SET, etc.— and indicate aircraft which are considered as variants.
Aircraft within the same class rating which are separated by a horizontal line in the tables require
differences training, whereas those aircraft which are contained in the same cell require familiarisation
when transitioning from one aircraft to another
[Footnote here refers to the definition of "familiarisation training" given in FCL.710 and earlier in this thread]

As an example, a SEP (land) aeroplane with variable
pitch propeller and a SEP (land) aeroplane with retractable undercarriage require differences training,
whereas two different SEP (land) aeroplanes, both with cabin pressurisation require familiarisation.

All aircraft within the same class rating MEP or SET require differences training, unless indicated
otherwise in the list.
Revalidation for each SET aircraft must be accomplished individually, unless indicated otherwise in the
list.

Image
#1664480
10 syndicates into my flying career, having been a new pilot with a share, then an experienced pilot with a share, and more recently a CRI in a couple of syndicates and freelancing to help some other syndicates with their checkouts...

- An experienced syndicate PPL who knows the aeroplane well is an excellent person to do checkouts.

- If nobody's an instructor, only one person logs it. Make sure that person is defensible to the insurance policy, and doesn't look odd to the AAIB.

- A "passenger handling the controls" is perfectly legal, just always when permitting it have in the back of your mind the phrase "at the subsequent inquiry".

- A syndicate should have agreed amongst themselves the standards and content they want in a checkout. Minimum standards of flying, minimum level of knowledge (the booking system, the little tricks to keep the seats clean, how you all want the aircraft secured at night...) and have this ideally written down.

- If you use a syndicate member who isn't an instructor, have a clear understanding of the point at which they pull the plug and get a "proper" instructor in. If you use an external instructor, make sure that they know what level of knowledge and minimum standards the syndicate expect. Don't be afraid to split the checkout role between an independent instructor and a syndicate member (it's not necessary for example for a hired in instructor to know all the stuff about keeping the aeroplane clean and book the aeroplane).

- Never let the person selling the share fly the checkout. However well regarded they are, it's not fair on them if anything goes wrong later.

- There's a huge amount to be said for not letting somebody buy their share until a "grown up" has decided that their flying skills are of a standard acceptable to the syndicate. I've several times seen a real mess created when somebody bought their share and turned out to have some combination of flying ability and attitude that really weren't acceptable to the group.

- It doesn't matter if the new shareholder has 10,000hrs instructing on type. They still need at the very least one of the syndicate members to fly with them, and brief them on the syndicate's rules and practices. It might not take long, but is still needed.

- Above all else, apply common sense !

G
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By foxmoth
#1664498
- An experienced syndicate PPL who knows the aeroplane well is an excellent person to do checkouts.


I would say CAN be an excellent person to do checkouts, I know instructors that might have loads of hours on type that I would not want to check out someone on my aircraft, Personality comes into it!
#1664549
A very valid point Foxmoth.

An experienced PPL, with good flying standards themselves, the right attitude, working to an agreed standard and checklist of things to be covered, shall we say.

But, within a syndicate, the members usually have a pretty fair idea of each other and each others attitudes and flying abilities - and can between them "select" the right PPL for the role.

G
#1664680
That's a very good list you posted there G. We are fortunate enough to have an excellent team of individuals in our syndicate and much of what you wrote rings true from our experience. We recently had to kick out a bad egg, which was a very unpleasant business, but on the bright side, there is now not a single pilot in our 8-man syndicate that I wouldn't trust to fly my children. They all fly well, look after the aeroplane as if it was wholly their own, and come out of the woodwork at permit time to do the required work, and each of us would cheerfully share a beer and pass the time of day with any of the others. When syndicates work well, they work really well.
Rob P, Genghis the Engineer, kanga and 1 others liked this
#1664688
I don't think anything that has been mentioned here is unreasonable.

Upon joining a group recently I was expected to do an hour with their trusted instructor that knows the aircraft well. I had no problems doing that and don't think any reasonable person could expect to join a group without any scrutiny of their flying experience, style and attitude. After all, it is everybody else's pride and joy too!

One thing I think is worth pointing out is everyone seems to do their paperwork differently, so some time with one of the members looking at all of the admin side is wise.

If paying for an instructor hour is a bridge too far for a prospective buyer then your probably best off finding someone else to sell to. Personally I found the check ride with the instructor useful in itself anyway.

I would imagine for those older than I with many more hours that taking hints and tips from an instructor may be easier to digest than from a fellow PPL... Although if the person has a reasonable temperament that shouldn't be an issue - but some people struggle with comments or pointers from colleagues!
pplmeir liked this
#1664701
It might also be the rule of the aero club where the aircraft is based that the CFI (who is essentially the ops manager of the field) might wish to undertake a short check flight with the new group member. It is also a courtesy to the CFI as he/she is responsible for the safety of the field.
#1664710
Good luck finding pilots that would be happy with that. Any airfield with that can't trust a qualified and group checked-out pilot without first flying with them wouldn't be the kind of environment I would want to be in. I must say though, I've never encountered any airfield that has this requirement, I'm used to being trusted to be a grown-up.