Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
User avatar
By neilmurg
#1663161
That list isn't great. Lots missing, no mention of Farnborough West for instance. It is OFFICIAL, which might mitigate the telling off you get for using the wrong Channel.
SD much better though. Better than the the supplements list or the airfield charts (Lydd updated but missed a 129.225)

However, it's not that hard to get (or receive in flight) the right freq/channel, so no 'moral hazard' issues. A list of the frequency/channel changes that WEREN'T just adding 0.005 would be useful, it's not that many, you could then add 0.005 to ALL your stored frequencies and just pick and change the oddities.
User avatar
By xtophe
#1663165
In the AIP supplement, the rows in bold are the ones where the 8.33 kHz channel doesn't correspond to the 25kHz one. There is also a few extra like the NOTAM ones.

It might be prudent to paste the PDF in excel and double-check.

It's likely there will be a January or February version of the supplement. So it might be worth reporting the error or omission to AIS.
neilmurg liked this
User avatar
By neilmurg
#1663178
I think it's all fine. If you pay enough attention there's no problem
I'm reflecting some frustration from some posters who've said 'always take the official data' when it's obvious that that data is not very good, and there's been some criticism of 'newfrequencies.co.uk' when it has been, in the round, an excellent FREE resource created entirely altruistically

2019, a new year, s'gonna be a great year for GA...
By GAFlyer4Fun
#1663189
If someones flight planning shows their destination with an old 25kHz frequency, simply phone the destination to check what they actually want you to use that day.

A phone call is less hassle and much cheaper than burning aviation fuel whilst trying to resolve it with an enroute controller that might also give the wrong information.

I am not sure of the suggestion of adding 0,005 to every old frequency in a database is a good way forward as it obfuscates what is truly the correct 8.33 channel with what is a guess even if it is right for some of them.
User avatar
By T67M
#1663192
My perception of 8.33kHz radio operation is that there is a slight but noticeable decrease in audio quality which may be a contributory factor behind my perception that there are more people saying "say again", and/or even missing calls completely.
Dusty_B liked this
By chevvron
#1663193
neilmurg wrote:That list isn't great. Lots missing, no mention of Farnborough West for instance.

As I mentioned before, Farnborough West (125.250) won't change for the time being as it is transmitted from multiple sites (in this case Farnborough and Southampton) and hence already uses offset carriers to avoid interference.
The same applies to East 123.225 (Riegate Hill and Warlingham) and 132.8 (Stansted and Luton).
By GAFlyer4Fun
#1663197
T67M wrote:My perception of 8.33kHz radio operation is that there is a slight but noticeable decrease in audio quality which may be a contributory factor behind my perception that there are more people saying "say again", and/or even missing calls completely.


I wonder how many aircraft are having teething problems related to plumbing something new into ageing electrical systems even when the installer used new wiring and circuit breakers etc, with some effects being intermittent, so difficult to describe/report/diagnose/fix.
Somethings could be pilot finger trouble, as many wont read the manual.
User avatar
By skydriller
#1663225
GAFlyer4Fun wrote:If someones flight planning shows their destination with an old 25kHz frequency, simply phone the destination to check what they actually want you to use that day.


:scratch:

Flight planning is just that...why would you phone somewhere to check, having just checked what an official source says??

Im obviously missing something... And I STILL dont know why any Frequency changes not on the latest Chart available officially cannot be NOTAMed in the UK when they can be elsewhere:

> LFFA-A5637/18
> Q)LFBB/QATTT/IV/ BO/AE/000/145/4500N00010W061
> A) LFBD BORDEAUX MERIGNAC
> B) 201901030000 C) 201901162359
> E) TRIGGER NOTAM - PERM AIRAC AIP AMDT 01/19 WEF 03 JAN 2019.
> FREQUENCIES APP-SOL-ATIS 8.33 CHANGED:
> - FREQ AQUITAINE APP : 126.730 MHZ (INSTEAD OF 126.725 MHZ)
> - FREQ TWR MERIGNAC GND : 121.730MHZ (INSTEAD OF 121.725MHZ)
> - FREQ ATIS MERIGNAC : 131.155MHZ (INSTEAD OF 131.150MHZ)

Regards, SD..
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
User avatar
By flybymike
#1663227
We have had to turn away some financially useful visiting traffic over the last year (military), in order to uphold the requirement for pilot's not to utter on 25kHz radios; quite evident is that many pilots have still been contacting us using the old, incorrect frequency.

Am I being thick?
Why would you need to turn away traffic calling on the old 25KHz frequency? If you can both hear one another what’s the problem?
Using the correct frequency/channel is the pilot’s responsibility, not ATC’s.
Talkdownman liked this
User avatar
By rikur_
#1663253
flybymike wrote:
We have had to turn away some financially useful visiting traffic over the last year (military), in order to uphold the requirement for pilot's not to utter on 25kHz radios; quite evident is that many pilots have still been contacting us using the old, incorrect frequency.

Am I being thick?
Why would you need to turn away traffic calling on the old 25KHz frequency? If you can both hear one another what’s the problem?
Using the correct frequency/channel is the pilot’s responsibility, not ATC’s.

I know an ATC unit who were willing to turn a blind eye to BBMF doing just that, but apparently BBMF didn't feel able to do the same.
By GAFlyer4Fun
#1663373
skydriller wrote:
GAFlyer4Fun wrote:If someones flight planning shows their destination with an old 25kHz frequency, simply phone the destination to check what they actually want you to use that day.


:scratch:

Flight planning is just that...why would you phone somewhere to check, having just checked what an official source says??

Im obviously missing something... ..


Official sources still reported to have errors according to others in this thread.
Just like some aircraft owners missed the deadline, so did some airfields.
I am sure it will settle down eventually.

My point is the deadline has passed so a destination airfield with a 25kHz frequency in the official sources might be in error or still waiting to transition. You can resolve it before flight or in flight, your choice.

Given how some forumites bleat about a few quid difference in landing fees, a phone call seems very cheap compared to the potential cost of extra flight time trying to obtain the correct information from a busy enroute controller, that might also have incorrect information, which could lead to a diversion if the destination requires two-way comms with inbound aircraft.
For some GA pilots it will increase their workload significantly, and distract them from a good lookout for traffic, another forum hot topic.
:wink:
By riverrock
#1663388
Last weekend Prestwick put out a NOTAM saying their tower, approach and ATIS frequencies had changed to 8.33 channels unrelated to the originals.

Call to the tower added to confusion as they didn't know about it! Told us to try them and if no response go back to the old ones. So people tried calling them on the new frequencies with no response.
A club member put up posters to tell people about the new channels.

After a bit of checking, the old standby frequencies listed in the AIP matched the new 8.33 ones so we phoned the tower again and they agreed it was the standby ones that had changed not the ones we have used for years.
They subsequently amended the NOTAM twice to make it clearer.

The process has been a farse. I have no idea if Prestwick are changing eventually but if the last NOTAM is anything to go by we'll have zero notice and the tower will be last to be told!