Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1664115
WingsOff wrote: .... and you need to wait for affirmation that your GAR has been filed/acknowladged/approved ....


Regardless of what a particular system does for your convenience, it is not required though.

There is no need at all to wait for confirmation of submission. You are required to notify not ask for permission.

(Edited to add quote from WingsOff, in order to clarify context of post)
johnm, gasman liked this
#1664140
Dave W wrote:Regardless of what a particular system does for your convenience, it is not required though.

There is no need at all to wait for confirmation of submission. You are required to notify not ask for permission.



You seem to have contradicted yourself.
You are (legally) required to notify them.
A GAR is the way they ask to be notified.
You do not need to wait for any kind of approval, nor even an acknowledgement of receipt. But it may prove useful if you have that proof if asked.
#1664143
I see no contradiction in what I wrote.

You are required to notify them - you are not required to either wait for a reply or to keep proof that you submitted the notification.

If you wait for a reply you are likely to be disappointed.

If you want a receipt, and choose a system that provides one then that's up to you. But it is not required.
#1664231
Dave W wrote:
WingsOff wrote: .... and you need to wait for affirmation that your GAR has been filed/acknowladged/approved ....


Regardless of what a particular system does for your convenience, it is not required though.

There is no need at all to wait for confirmation of submission. You are required to notify not ask for permission.

(Edited to add quote from WingsOff, in order to clarify context of post)


I recall one time I had an issue with a GAR whilst flying into Duxford. I submitted the GAR, later that day it was queried (can't remember why) so I responded via email to the person at BF answering the question. I then flew into Duxford the following day; upon arrival I was instructed to taxi to a certain point and not leave the aircraft as BF had not received my GAR, that BF wanted to send officials to check my details; even though I advised the staff that I could demonstrate that not only had BF received the GAR, it had actually been queried and I had replied to this, I still had to stand around and wait for the BF officers to turn up and see for themselves that yes, I had submitted a GAR before I could leave the immediate area of my trusty steed.....
#1664239
The BF get details of all Flightplans from NATS. They then look to find Flightplans, for which they don’t have GAR’s, then go inspect those aircraft.

So us completing GAR’s does actually help the BF to spot the (potentially) bad guys.
kanga liked this
#1664250
I think there is some slight confusion here..... There is no requirement to seek permission from either BF or Special Branch, but there is an obligation to notify and whether it's one or both depends on the trip. The on-line facilities now offered make it a doddle.
#1664251
Full Metal Jackass wrote: I then flew into Duxford the following day; upon arrival I was instructed to taxi to a certain point and not leave the aircraft as BF had not received my GAR, that BF wanted to send officials to check my details; even though I advised the staff that I could demonstrate that not only had BF received the GAR, it had actually been queried and I had replied to this, I still had to stand around and wait for the BF officers to turn up and see for themselves that yes, I had submitted a GAR before I could leave the immediate area of my trusty steed.....


I would probably hang around and wait if asked too, but it does raise an interesting few questions:

1. Who is to stop you leaving the aerodrome and by what means?
2. What is a reasonable time to wait for BF to turn up having told them of your ETA on the GAR?
3. What happens if you decide to leave and then they pitch up later looking for you?

I would say probably:

1. The local constabulary or BF officer could detain you.*
2. At the very least until your stated ETA.
3. They can find you at the address stated on the form if they feel the need.

*I wonder how any possible private security personnel present would see their role though?

Regards, SD..
#1664312
Yes. :D

Long answer:

Customs and Excise Management Act 1979 Section 35
CONTROL OF IMPORTATION
Inward entry and clearance
35.-(1) Report shall be made in such form and manner and
containing such particulars as the Commissioners may direct
of every ship and aircraft to which this section applies
...
(5)If the person by whom the report should be made fails to make report as required by or under this section—
(a)he shall be liable on summary conviction to a penalty oflevel 3 on the standard scale; and
(b)any goods required to be reported which are not duly reported may be detained by any officer until so reported or until the omission is explained to the satisfaction of the Commissioners, and may in the meantime be deposited in a Queen’s warehouse.

(6)The person making the report shall at the time of making it answer all such questions relating to the ship, or aircraft, to the goods carried therein, to the crew and to the voyage, flight, or journey as may be put to him by the proper officer; and if he refuses to answer he shall be liable on summary conviction to a penalty of level 3 on the standard scale.


It would be reasonable to interpret 35(1) that the "form and manner...[that] the Commissioners may direct..." is the GAR, the instructions for which reference the Act and the Section.

There is no means of providing the info required under Section 35 other than the GAR so far as I am aware, so de facto the GAR is the means of meeting the requirements of the Act.
#1664336
Joe Dell wrote:So. After all that. The Border Force guy who told me that failure to file a GAR was NOT breaking any LAW was correct? Answers of up to three letters appreciated.


The law says that under certain circumstances of travel into and out of the UK by air, that the PIC must inform various agencies of their intentions within various timeframes. The GAR is a (relatively) simple “one form fits all scenarios” method of doing that.

So, yes reporting is mandatory, but no the GAR form is not, so it really is yes and no.
#1664349
Dave W wrote:Previous post edited with highlights and headlines, as requested. There's even a three letter Exec Summary now. :D


Didn't your interpretation mean "no" though? :D

So. Informing is mandatory? The GAR form isn't per-se? But the GAR form is the only way of informing, so de-facto, ipso-facto, veni vidi vici, that makes the GAR form mandatory?

So yes and no....