Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
Paul_Sengupta wrote:Didn't your interpretation mean "no" though? :D


Just in case I was typing in Swahili earlier:

1. Notification is legally required. (Customs and Excise Management Act 1979 Section 35)
2. The means of notification is as directed by the Commisioners. The GAR meets that direction, and there don't seem to be alternative methods.
3. You are not required to wait for "permission" after you have notified. (You won't get it)
4. You are not required to wait for a receipt after you have notified.
5. Nevertheless, if you feel more comfortable with a receipt or other evidence of notification, then that's fine. But you do not legally need it.
The question was...

Joe Dell wrote:The Border Force guy who told me that failure to file a GAR was NOT breaking any LAW was correct? Answers of up to three letters appreciated.

He said that not submitting a GAR was not breaking the law. Was this correct?

My "yes and no" interpretation is that in itself, it is correct, yes....but not informing is breaking the law...and the only way of informing is to submit a GAR, so de-facto, the answer is "no", he wasn't correct, as not submitting a GAR would be not informing and thus breaking the law.

Or that's my reading of it..
Paul_Sengupta wrote:He said that not submitting a GAR was not breaking the law. Was this correct?

Insufficiently precise statement and question.

One could take "not submitting a GAR" to be either "not informing at all", or to mean "informing by alternative means that meet the Commissioners' direction".

The former is not OK and is breaking the law, the latter would be OK - but there does not seem to be such alternative means available.

Hence in practice the GAR (via its various means of submission) is the only apparently available means of submission.

That was as tiresome to write as I expect it was to read.

So, to summarise: 12.
WingsOff wrote:
The disparity in requirements for notification when arriving by boat vs. aircraft is just ridiculous - by boat, with EU nationals on board from an EU origin port, no need to tell anyone at all. If you arrive with some non-EU nationals on board, or you sailed from a non-EU-country, you just phone after arriving, the National Yachtline and you might have to file the C1331 form (bit like a GAR) - but that's after you have arrived - no advanced notice requirements! In an aircraft (for non-eu pax/origin) 24 hours notice and you need to wait for affirmation that your GAR has been filed/acknowladged/approved - or four hours for EU pax/origin.

So regardless of Schengen/EU, whatever, just sail a boat into a little harbour in Cornwall and do what you want with as many passengers as you want if they've all got EU-passports.

Clearly the boating fraternity had better lobbyists than the aviation community!

A missed opportunity, but that boat has sailed!
Paul_Sengupta wrote:So yes and no....


Informing UKBF, HMRC, Police in line with legal requirements - YES

Using the GAR form - NO

Aren't there parallels with other areas here? Do you have to by law have a driving licence? Yes. Do the various statutes prescribe exactly which form must be used to apply for one? No.
There's a difference between the legal wording for informing Special Branch (PofT Act2000, e.g. Sch.7 12(3)(b) - essentially "Tell a constable - in writing") and the legal wording for informing Customs & Immigration ("Do it in a manner that the Commissioners direct").

For the police, it is legally quite loose. For C&I, less so - and relevantly it would appear that it is the GAR that is the only available means of meeting the direction.

What's missing from this thread, if it is really needed, is a direct reference/link to the formal Commissioners' Direction.
Dave W wrote:What's missing from this thread, if it is really needed, is a direct reference/link to the formal Commissioners' Direction.

I could only find the proposed Commissioners Directions. ... mation.pdf

(2) For the purposes of this paragraph information is delivered in the prescribed
(a) in cases where it is in respect of the intended travel of an aircraft, when it is notified
to the Commissioners in the form specified in Schedule 2,

Schedule 2: General Aviation Report
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