Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1656027
Not true, and not logical, and I doubt any of us would ever say this to ourselves.

But how many have felt it, despite knowing it to be illogical and just plain wrong?

In 100% of this months fatal accidents in the AAIB report there was an instructor on board.

My take on both of them is that neither aircraft should have taken off, and that there were in both cases pre-flight hints available that the flight should maybe not have taken place. But, as the student, would I have made the correct decision to refuse to fly, despite the instructor being willing to do so?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/762285/AAIB_Bulletin_12-2018_Hi_Res.pdf
#1656033
My initial comment is: why have they published this a week early?

I know it's not relevant to the incidents/accidents contained therein and mentioned above, and perhaps poor form on my part considering the fatalities involved, but it's against the AAIB's own stated requirements, which may affect families/interested parties.

AAIB wrote:...AAIB monthly bulletins. They are published on the 2nd Thursday of the month.
Source

Unless I'm missing something obvious?

Rob {edit: my bold and italics above]

[Edit: by coincidence, the AAIB today issued a further Bulletin S2/2018 into the Leicester Helicopter accident. I wonder if issuing one led to the issue of the other?
#1656059
No, that's not how it is. The thought is, "If I die it's not my fault because I've got an instructor sitting next to me."
A very different thing, abdication of responsibility. It can be a wonderful cosy feeling while you watch all sorts of scary things happening. Bit like being on a fairground ride where once you have got on its totally out of your control.
One of the jobs of an instructor is to prevent that cosy feeling, to foster a sense of reality.
I do mean this - people are more scared of looking stupid than they are of dying. I've found myself in just that situation. And been able to watch myself doing it and know what I'm doing without being able to change my behaviour. Powerful stuff...
Last edited by lobstaboy on Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1656061
Once upon a time (roughly 3 decades ago and beyond), an instructor did what he/she did (there weren’t many ‘she’ instructors then) because that was what they chose to do.

I’m sorry, but the 21 year old starry-eyed BA “hopeful” who sat up all night the night before on SnapChat and revising for his 28th I.R. written exam that he’s trying for the third time to pass so that Daddy doesn’t tell him he’s wasting his money, is not the kind of instructor we used to have the benefit of.

RIP Barry Dyke. You were a little bit of a rogue, but you prepared those you taught for all sorts, and for that I’ll never forget you. :thumleft:
#1656071
Are instructors being "bashed" on this thread? I don't see it.

I see a thread that is pointing out that having an instructor sat beside you is not a panacea for all that could happen.
#1656073
TheFarmer wrote:No, but young instructors rarely want to be instructors because they want to be instructors....



Until very recently, a young instructor would be lucky to earn more than about 16k per annum full time (in some cases, as 'freelancers' - hence no holiday or sick pay) having spent upwards of 80k to be able to instruct at a PPL level.

All the while receiving sneers about their social media habits and abilty to pass exams from their students, apparently.

Maybe, just maybe, this had the effect of preventing those who wanted to, among the CPL hourbuilding brigade, from following that particular career path?
#1656077
In my experience most pilots tend to think think that if they have an instructor sat next to them, nothing can go wrong.

To some extent, if the instructor is as good as she should be, that's true. But it nonetheless is a very unhealthy attitude for two reasons...

(1) It trains students to take too little concern in their own flying.

(2) Instructors start to believe it too.


I think GASCo some years ago determined that there was an instructor on board for about 1/3rd of GA fatal accidents - which I'm sure is a vastly higher proportion than of all GA flights. My personal theory is that the other major factor there is that there's often a great deal of communication going on, more than strictly necessary, not essential to the safe conduct to the flight - and that this tends to increase workload, and correspondingly increase the risk of an accident. I've not seen any hard evidence to support (or disprove) that theory however.

G
#1656080
I think it’s a flawed stat - more likely to be because a high proportion of GA hours are training and the sortie profile is more risky (stalling, PFLs, inexperienced pilot handling etc..) Same as when the infringement with an instructor on board stat gets trotted out