Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1655151
With the UN Climate Change Conference underway, what are we doing about it?

We are (most of us) flying around in machines using technology from more than 60 years ago. Plenty of people working on electric aircraft but what do we do in the meantime given the inordinate length of time it usually takes for anything new to be adopted in aviation.

Whilst GA might not be a very large contributor to climate change when compared to Chinese coal-fired power stations, will the cost of avgas and taxes placed on it make flying an old lycosaur a financial impossibility? Is the PA-28 and Cessna 172 destined to die in the next 5 years??

Should we be asking the CAA and EASA to exempt electric aircraft from the usual certification nonsense like Part 21 so that electric aircraft can be produced more quickly and for much less money??

I am now ashamed to tell people that my aircraft burns 10 Gallons of fuel per hour (giving me 15 mpg).
Last edited by Bob Upanddown on Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1655158
No, all of those things would be knee jerk reactions, would compromise safety and would make the air exactly what the airlines want, free of all GA.

The biggest polluters of the air are airlines and low occupancy business jets. The simplest way to avoid pollution in aviation is to tax the hell out of non business aviation and ban all business jets. Holidaying in the Seychelles and driving to the airport in your electric car is pathetic.

Now don't get me started on cruise ships.
#1655161
Beyond the development work on electric and hybrid aircraft the answer is not a lot and our contribution is small. Hybrids are a bit questionable at the moment and the need for low impact generation to propel electric vehicles is critical.

None of this is trivial and there's a need to look at both mitigation and adaptation together....
#1655163
Got accosted by a tree hugging maiden a while ago at an agricultural show. She was campaigning against farting and belching cows adding to methane and would I support her campaign.

I said I would look at her leaflet next time I was at work burning 60 tonnes of diesel to take folks on holiday.

She went all wobbly and feint, so I asked a steward to escort her out.....

1 hour of a decent volcano does more harm than a huge number of GA aircraft, so I would fly happy :thumleft:
Spooky liked this
#1655167
The contribution of greenhouse gasses to the atmosphere is indeed a very complicated area, and the focus on CO2 emissions only part of the story. The overall long term cycle is also not well understood. It's a huge and intractable problem and we've yet to hear anyone accepting that adaptation is essential, because mitigation might not be enough to obviate the need for radical change in how we live and feed ourselves.
yappmeister liked this
#1655175
Bob Upanddown wrote:what are we doing about it?


What I'm personally doing about it is not having kids. This will have a far far far far far greater effect down the ages than piddling around with a little avgas burning on weekends for a few years.

Will PA28s and 172s disappear in the next 5 years? Only really in the same number as has been happening for the past 5, or 10, or 15.
Peter Mundy, Nick, Ben K and 2 others liked this
#1655180
Paul, you are so right. Don't have kids, you are only making making your own future polluters and if for some reason you don't have the resolve not to have them, bring them up vegan.

I wonder how many cows worth of carbon a PA 28 produces.
Nick liked this
#1655183
Bob Upanddown wrote:With the UN Climate Change Conference underway, what are we doing about it?

We are (most of us) flying around in machines using technology from more than 60 years ago. Plenty of people working on electric aircraft but what do we do in the meantime given the inordinate length of time it usually takes for anything new to be adopted in aviation.

Whilst GA might not be a very large contributor to climate change when compared to Chinese coal-fired power stations, will the cost of avgas and taxes placed on it make flying an old lycosaur a financial impossibility? Is the PA-28 and Cessna 172 destined to die in the next 5 years??

Should we be asking the CAA and EASA to exempt electric aircraft from the usual certification nonsense like Part 21 so that electric aircraft can be produced more quickly and for much less money??

I am now ashamed to tell people that my aircraft burns 10 Gallons of fuel per hour (giving me 15 mpg).


15 mpg is probably comparable with average road fuel burn for a given routeas one is going direct.
#1655184
I accepted climate change was irreversible a few years ago so I’ve had Range Rovers ever since to avoid the inevitable floods (there have been a couple).

The Chang is there so I can keep flying when Iceland goes off again and by coincidence, handily it means any carbon output from it is somewhat moot.

:twisted:
zain_robson liked this
#1655189
You cannot maintain economic growth at the rate expected and needed, and at the same time cut emissions substantially. It will never work.
And if politicians believe electric cars will save the World, they are seriously deluded, it is merely political.
Pretty sure I read somewhere, that by 2030 the airline industry will produce 20% of the total co2, it probably is doing already.

Oh, and as Paul said, stop having kids.
#1655201
Bob Upanddown wrote:....I am now ashamed to tell people that my aircraft burns 10 Gallons of fuel per hour (giving me 15 mpg).


But you don't have it burning that amount for more than a few hours a day/week/month. Compare that fuel burn to your car/house/business, I think you will find it's a small amount for us hobbyists.

Incidentally, the climate change convention is being held in Poland which creates 4/5ths of its electricity from coal.
#1655204
Cruise ships, container ships burning heavy oil, coal burning power stations, countries such as India, China, Russia with their pollutants and America with it millions of cars doing 10 mpg.

I am not at all ashamed and won't be loosing any sleep over my aircraft burning 7 gph or my classic car with its straight through exhaust system and no catalytic convertors. :lol:
Chris Martyr, Sooty25 liked this