Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By plus7g
#1655471
. [quote="Richard Dastardly"]It’s an Augusta 109 - hangar & pad next to house & on his estate. [b]The original question was really about ‘is one limited to movements’ - that’s all.[/b] No intention of reporting it.[/quote]

Why the comment about the weather and his sqwawk then Richard Dastardly ?
" takes off sometimes in zero vis, no squawk - nowt. "

It is certainly what prompted the legality of transponder use debate.......
Last edited by plus7g on Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By Gertie
#1655540
TheFarmer wrote:Nobody calls the local council unless it’s to complain.

They do occasionally. When someone contacts the council to say "thanks" or "well done" about something management do (at least in the councils I know about) pass this on to the member of staff concerned, so it is worth doing.
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By kanga
#1655621
Gustosomerset wrote:.. The curtilage of a farm, for example, is the farm. Its domestic curtilage is (probably) just its garden.


the 'domestic curtilage' of Woburn, Badminton, Old Warden, .. is evidently large enough to accommodate a runway .. :)
#1655633
To add to the confusion, the 2017 Briefing Paper on 'Nuisance from helicopters and light aircraft' seems to state almost exactly the opposite of the BHA document quoted above and then tie itself in another knot:

"Helicopters and small aircraft may use temporary sites for landing and taking off provided safety standards are observed. Such sites can include large back gardens, hotel grounds, or open fields (provided the owner consents) or open wasteland. Such sites do not need to be approved by the CAA: their safety for use is judged by the pilot.
Under Schedule 2, Part 4, Class B of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (SI 2015/596)12 helicopters and small aircraft are given permitted development rights to use temporary sites for up to 28 days in a calendar year without the need to make a specific planning application. The days can be consecutive and there is no restriction on the number of movements. The temporary sites, however, must not be buildings or within the curtilage of a building. Clearly there is scope for interpretation of what constitutes the ‘curtilage of a building’ and this is a matter for case law."

This seems to suggest that all private locations (including gardens) are designated as 'temporary sites' and therefore subject to the 28 day rule. But then goes on to say that such a site cannot be within the curtilage of a building (like a garden, for example).
#1655642
Helicopters and small aircraft may use temporary sites for landing and taking off provided safety standards are observed. Such sites can include large back gardens, hotel grounds, or open fields (provided the owner consents)


That would seem to imply that those conditions apply only to temporary sites (the codicil ,re- owner's consent, would appear to reinforce the "temporary sites" descriptor.

No, I'm not a legal- eagle either! :P
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By Gertie
#1655757
Gustosomerset wrote:This seems to suggest that all private locations (including gardens) are designated as 'temporary sites' and therefore subject to the 28 day rule. But then goes on to say that such a site cannot be within the curtilage of a building (like a garden, for example).

Exactly the sort of confusion that led me to recommend consulting a specialist planning lawyer if you really want to understand anything into which the word "curtilage" comes.
#1655764
Agree. That said, leaving aside all the obvious confusion about curtilages, the above does (more or less) support what I had always believed to be the case - i.e, that all private 'non-approved' sites are subject to the 28 day rule wherever they are and whatever the type of aircraft - rotary or fixed wing (contrary to what the BHA seems to believe).

The legal situation is obviously a mess, but to our advantage for a change, I think. FWIW, my neighbour (who owns many acres) regularly uses an airstrip at the top of his land for both his helicopter and his aeroplane. I once asked him if anyone had ever given him any grief about the 28 day rule. He simply pointed to another field down the hill large enough for a second strip - ready to be used just in case.
#1655793
previous post I didn't make very clear.- so, If it's your own land, you don't need permission from yourself.
The quoted rule specifically mentions "Providing the owner consents." Therefore, 28 day rule refers to large gardens, Hotel grounds etc. NOT owned by the aircraft owner / Pilot.
Yes, it's typical of loose legislation designed as a "gotcha" to try and trap someone if they have a real desire to "carpet " that individual.
#1655796
I’ve deliberately refrained from discussing the rules of private strips/pads here, but I’m really sorry to say that many of you really don’t have a clue about Planning and airstrips, and are potentially victims of your own naivety.

Blunt? Maybe. But you need to stop being so obsessed about the 28 day rule as it doesn’t apply!!
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By PaulSS
#1655814
@TheFarmer
But you need to stop being so obsessed about the 28 day rule as it doesn’t apply!!


Are you just going to chuck in that grenade and walk away or are you going to give us the benefit of your wisdom? I'm sure there's a lot of us who would like to learn.

@Gustosomerset The way I read the 'nuisance' paper is that it is correct in its definition of the '28 day rule' and applies if the light aircraft or helicopter is flying under that rule BUT, as suggested by the BHA, it is not necessary for a helicopter to operate under the '28 day rule' when flying from the private property's curtilage.