Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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User avatar
By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1654725
Ah, but SE2 is the 'B' model...

I do wonder (I think I've wondered about it before) whether the same SE2 receiver could be used for both. Of course, the following may have a fundamental technical reason why it wouldn't work - I don't know, but it would be good to learn.

There's no requirement for the weather data to be continuously updated as traffic data needs to be, since weather doesn't change that fast.

If (a significant if) it takes a relatively small amount of time to capture the weather picture, then the receiver could be tuned to do that at low rate and in the intermediate periods the receiver would receive FLARM.

The design might want to have an inhibit such that if a contact is received within [some distance/time period] and is a potential threat, then the switch to UAT weather is delayed.

Well, it's a concept.
gaznav liked this
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1654732
Why not? It could automatically update a separate weather page for the route on SD, in the background.

Or is an overlay on the active page preferred?
Last edited by patowalker on Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By exfirepro
#1654742
@uAvionix-Ramsey

gaznav wrote:In fact seeing as SkyEcho 1 and SkyEcho 2 have their heritage linked to the SkyEcho ATT20b (https://uavionix.com/products/echo-att-20b/) - then it is probably even a C Model (or Mk III to be more British). :thumright:


Speaking of which - as a very early Mk1 (ATT20B) and MkII (SkyEcho 1) adopter - will the promised ‘SkyEcho firmware update’ allow this new functionality on the Previous SkyEcho iterations ?

If not, have uAvionix considered an ‘Upgrade route’ for existing users - like PIlotAware have done for their existing customers who want to ‘Upgrade’ to Rosetta?

Regards

Peter
User avatar
By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1654743
Whatever: I'm biding my time till everyone on here sings the praises of a definitive model that will provide me with EC linked to SD on my iPad but will not require the replacement of my perfectly functional but non ADSB able Garmin transponder, nor will require me to turn it off.

We've already spent too much on an unnecessary arbitrary radio purchase as a result of goal-post moving.

Peter :wink:
Bathman liked this
User avatar
By gaznav
#1654744
@exfirepro

Hi Peter, I’ve been told there is an imminent software drop for SkyEcho 1 to give it SIL=1. It shares the same TSO-c199 GPS and so I guess it’s just down to paperwork and software. Not so sure about the ATT-20b. You could always drop the company an email, I’ve always found them really helpful.

Best, Gaz
exfirepro liked this
#1654747
@gaznav

Thanks Gaz,

I already have full ModeS-ES capability (with SIL 1) via my Trig Gear, so I’m more interested in the FLARM integration aspect TBH, - though I also have direct FLARM in/out via a FlarmMouse with LED display - integrated to SD via PilotAware. Like yourself, I always like to be able to test my options personally to see how they perform in the real world.

For those who were debating range earlier in the thread, Classic FLARM transmits c. 10 milliwatts - PowerFLARM a maximum of 25 milliwatts (which is the maximum limitation in Flarm’s chosen part of the 869 MHz band), hence transmission and reception range is limited and quite frankly - antenna positioning is everything! You can’t just increase the ‘gain’ of the antenna, as the transmit power limits are ‘ERP’ (effective radiated Power) and increasing transmit antenna gain would cause this ERP to be exceeded. This is - at least in part - why PAW -OGN-R opts for the use of high gain antennas to pick up FLARM traffic reliably and takes advantage of the fact that PAW can re-transmit at 500 milliwatts in its part of the band to rebroadcast traffic positions effectively to any PilotAware units in the neighbourhood.

@Tim Dawson

Congratulations on getting this all sorted. Another positive step towards full EC integration.

Best regards

Peter
Last edited by exfirepro on Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tim Dawson, gaznav liked this
By dernhelm
#1654775
@Gaznav
I’m pretty sure that its 868.2 to 868.4 MHz at 15mW for Classic FLARM and 40mW for PFLARM. With one of the small mobile FLARMs that I have used in the past then a 4km detection was about the maximum. However, with a ground station we were seeing the same at over 40km. So you are right, the signal is weak and it is all about the receiver and antenna technology.


Thanks for this I'll check out the results when they are published. My concern before I cough up is, as you have shown, that the signals are pretty weak so trying to detect them with anything but an 868MHz tuned antenna will not be very efficient will it?

I would like more than 4kM if possible
gaznav liked this
#1654777
I can confirm a SIL 1 update to skyEcho 1 is coming shortly. Flarm compatibility will not be updated for SE1.

SE2 includes 2 internal antennas as discussed on this forum. One for 1090, one for 978. The Flarm functionality uses the 978 antenna - we believe receive performance will be acceptable - but interested to hear feedback from the beta program.

SE1 only has one, matched to 1090MHz. SE2 reception is much better than SE1. Flarm performance would likely not be acceptable on SE1.

The firmware updates will be placed on our product page. Tim's beta test release notes instruct testers on how to get the SE2 update.

Also - currently no SE3 in the works currently.

I don't think there are any remaining ATT20B's in the wild - but interested to know if there are.
gaznav, neilmurg, dernhelm liked this
#1654799
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:
Ian Melville wrote: Transponder antenna


Must have been banking during that transmission - the 'e' never made it.

:D

Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Transponder antenna were

'Transponder antennae/antennas' were or 'a transponder antenna was'



Rudy foreigners correcting a native speakers who can speak like what da Queen can. :D
Nick, Flyin'Dutch', kanga liked this
User avatar
By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1654814
Dave W wrote:If (a significant if) it takes a relatively small amount of time to capture the weather picture, then the receiver could be tuned to do that at low rate and in the intermediate periods the receiver would receive FLARM.


I think you've mentioned such a thing before, and I responded with the fact that the elves at PilotAware (ok, Lee...) tried this with a single SDR to get weather and ADS-B. It sort of worked, but the weather download was slow, and chances are you'd be out of range of the weather transmitter by the time it downloaded a whole picture. Maybe it could have been tweaked so that less time was devoted to ADS-B reception if there were no nearby contacts detected, but, with the low power of Flarm, I can't see that working as time is fairly critical from a Flarm contact first coming into range.
Dave W liked this
User avatar
By exfirepro
#1654818
@uAvionix-Ramsey

uAvionix-Ramsey wrote:I can confirm a SIL 1 update to skyEcho 1 is coming shortly. Flarm compatibility will not be updated for SE1.

SE2 includes 2 internal antennas as discussed on this forum. One for 1090, one for 978. The Flarm functionality uses the 978 antenna - we believe receive performance will be acceptable - but interested to hear feedback from the beta program.

SE1 only has one, matched to 1090MHz. SE2 reception is much better than SE1. Flarm performance would likely not be acceptable on SE1.

The firmware updates will be placed on our product page. Tim's beta test release notes instruct testers on how to get the SE2 update.

Also - currently no SE3 in the works currently.

I don't think there are any remaining ATT20B's in the wild - but interested to know if there are.


Hi Christian,

Yes, as a matter of fact I do still have my ATT-20B, bought in good faith back in January 2017 and until recently used fairly regularly, though it’s a bit of a white elephant these days as it’s no longer listed on the echo app, which makes it a bit awkward to programme. A great shame, as I have always thought it an excellent unit for permanent mounting in my type of aircraft.

I can also see why, with only one antenna, your FLARM compatibility option won’t work on SE1 or on my ATT-20B and would happily pay to upgrade to receive the additional functionality, but that brings me back to my original question....

As we now know that the promised SkyEcho ‘firmware update’ will NOT allow the new FLARM [and SIL 1] functionality on the Previous SkyEcho iterations, have uAvionix considered a subsidised Upgrade Route for early adopters - like PIlotAware have done for their existing customers who want to ‘Upgrade’ from PAW Classic to Rosetta, or are existing uAvionix customers, who bought their previous units in good faith simply expected to shell out another £443 + postage etc. if we want to upgrade to the current version ?

Regards

Peter
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