Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1653473
No doubt Europas are great flying machines but there are many more unfinished Europa kits than RVs, the build time for the latter is way shorter and the value of the finished product is such that few builders sell their newly acquired mount, whereas many Europa builders flogged theirs, especially the Mono-wheeled version.

The Monowheels were a regular feature in the AAIB reports when they were first completed.
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By Charliesixtysix
#1653485
Given your experience level, spending a chunk of cash going flying would be a sound idea first.

Then, If you want ownership, buy into a group for a season or two.

Then, if you still really, really, really want to build an aircraft, you will know better what kind of flying you enjoy most and chose the best kit for your desires - my guess is that one of the Vans range would figure highly,not least because they are well sorted kits, with excellent product support and are all great aircraft to own and operate when built (and dead easy to sell on when that time comes).

To sum up, the commonly offered advice, not without reason, is :
If you want to fly - buy...If you want to build - build.

Don’t please think you will save money by building your own aircaft, you won’t - and it will always take twice as long as you can imagine for the build process and that is time not flying....

From one who built and flew his own aircraft and now flies one that someone else built. :thumright:
Paul_Sengupta, Bobcro liked this
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By Paul_Sengupta
#1653493
I will echo what C66 said. You won't get time to build *and* fly, unless perhaps you're retired and don't have any family to nag you to do anything else! :D

A friend of mine built a relatively simply constructed aeroplane, an Escapade, spending all waking hours outside work on it, and it still took him three years during which time I don't think he flew at all, or at least not much.

He had a supportive wife and kids who I think were only too happy to see him disappear into the garage and only appear at meal times!

He's toying with the idea of building something else now...
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By kanga
#1653557
Charliesixtysix wrote:Given your experience level, spending a chunk of cash going flying would be a sound idea first.

Then, If you want ownership, buy into a group for a season or two.

Then, if you still really, really, really want to build an aircraft, you will know better what kind of flying you enjoy most and chose the best kit for your desires..
If you want to fly - buy...If you want to build - build.

..


I'd add: if you're going to build, you'll be joining the LAA (or, for some types, BMAA) anyway. If you are not already a regular at your local Strut, go along and discover on the grapevine what local build projects there are, solo or group. All 'solo' builders tend to need an extra, often unskilled but willing, pair of hands (eyes, greased elbows, ..) at times. You'll get a more realistic idea of tools, space (vertical as well as horizontal), timescales, knuckle hazards .. required and involved. You may also notice what project types seem to be 'on hold' more often than others .. :roll:

Oh, and in return for such help, you may be offered some free or cheap flying, not necessarily loggable but still instructive.
ivor.phillips liked this
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By gonzohop
#1653578
Charliesixtysix wrote:Given your experience level, spending a chunk of cash going flying would be a sound idea first.

Then, If you want ownership, buy into a group for a season or two.

Then, if you still really, really, really want to build an aircraft, you will know better what kind of flying you enjoy most and chose the best kit for your desires - my guess is that one of the Vans range would figure highly,not least because they are well sorted kits, with excellent product support and are all great aircraft to own and operate when built (and dead easy to sell on when that time comes).

To sum up, the commonly offered advice, not without reason, is :
If you want to fly - buy...If you want to build - build.

Don’t please think you will save money by building your own aircaft, you won’t - and it will always take twice as long as you can imagine for the build process and that is time not flying....

From one who built and flew his own aircraft and now flies one that someone else built. :thumright:


Well this certainly got me thinking, thank you. I suspect my enthusiasm might be getting away with me - this seems sage-like advice. :thumleft:

Paul_Sengupta wrote:He had a supportive wife and kids who I think were only too happy to see him disappear into the garage and only appear at meal times!


Haha! :lol:

kanga wrote:I'd add: if you're going to build, you'll be joining the LAA (or, for some types, BMAA) anyway. If you are not already a regular at your local Strut, go along and discover on the grapevine what local build projects there are, solo or group. All 'solo' builders tend to need an extra, often unskilled but willing, pair of hands (eyes, greased elbows, ..) at times. You'll get a more realistic idea of tools, space (vertical as well as horizontal), timescales, knuckle hazards .. required and involved. You may also notice what project types seem to be 'on hold' more often than others .. :roll:

Oh, and in return for such help, you may be offered some free or cheap flying, not necessarily loggable but still instructive.


This is such a great idea. I think my local Strut is Henstridge so I'll contact them. Thank you. :thumleft:
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By gonzohop
#1653708
Ian Melville wrote:Wot C66 said.

Also worth joining the Europa Club, that way you get the know the type, and possibly get to know about projects being sold on.


Yep, done that - got my Europa pin-badge yesterday! :lol:
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By Lowmoorfarm
#1654438
gonzohop wrote:Might be! I'll PM you.

As a new member I'm sorry to say I don't have the privilege to return your PM but basically I bought the Europa with the idea of upgrading my licence from the NPPL(M) I currently hold and flying from my rather modest 400m farm strip. Sadly I was then advised the 400m would be too short for the Europa with a novice pilot like me at the controls so I never got any further. It's now sat here all cosy in my hanger, and I've just not got around to doing anything more about it. Rather disappointing really as I first thought I could make the strip longer, but due to various reasons sadly this is not an option... :(
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By gonzohop
#1654452
Lowmoorfarm wrote:As a new member I'm sorry to say I don't have the privilege to return your PM ... :(


I got PM privileges after a few posts on this topic. I'm sure you'll have it soon. :thumleft: Get in touch when you do. :D
By ploucandco
#1655428
Lowmoorfarm wrote:
gonzohop wrote:Might be! I'll PM you.

As a new member I'm sorry to say I don't have the privilege to return your PM but basically I bought the Europa with the idea of upgrading my licence from the NPPL(M) I currently hold and flying from my rather modest 400m farm strip. Sadly I was then advised the 400m would be too short for the Europa with a novice pilot like me at the controls so I never got any further. It's now sat here all cosy in my hanger, and I've just not got around to doing anything more about it. Rather disappointing really as I first thought I could make the strip longer, but due to various reasons sadly this is not an option... :(


If I were you, I would find an instructor and fly this plane!

I started flying my Europa mono on a 400m strip just after getting my PPL.
Took some time to get to the right level of precision to land this plane safely, but got it right! You are the pilot and if you need to go around, nobody will ever blame you!

After 10 years and 500+ hours, I am still on the 400m strip and so happy that I flew it till now and purchased it built!
gonzohop, map5623, Nick and 1 others liked this
By Big Dex
#1656020
In my opinion, more important; what prop? A variable pitch prop has more to offer than the extra 20hp of a 912S over a 912. A wide-open 912S at 5000rpm makes less power than a 912 at 5800rpm.

Mine has a Airmaster CS prop, and a 912S; I’m happy to operate from sub-400m airfields (XS Trigear)
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By Lowmoorfarm
#1656023
Big Dex wrote:In my opinion, more important; what prop? A variable pitch prop has more to offer than the extra 20hp of a 912S over a 912. A wide-open 912S at 5000rpm makes less power than a 912 at 5800rpm.

Mine has a Airmaster CS prop, and a 912S; I’m happy to operate from sub-400m airfields (XS Trigear)

Have a Arplast PV50 prop here along with the 80hp 912UL, although I do also have a 912ULS ready to fit.