Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By gonzohop
#1653165
ivor.phillips wrote:I have a XS tri gear and based at Lydd, also built her my self so if you need any information
Concerning what’s involved the feel free to PM me
Ivor


Thanks Ivor! Have PM'd. :thumleft:
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By CloudHound
#1653184
Hi gonzohop,

To add to the discussion, I'm a long time PFA/LAA a/c owner some of which were homebuilt just not by me. So I think it worth exploring the difference between pilots that build and builders who fly.

I'm handy enough maintaining my a/c but in life have little patience, time or space to build. I have friends who are blessed with all of the above and have turned out more than one magnificent machine then gone on to fly them regularly.

However, I've also known some incredibly skilled builders for whom the build was everything. Some didn't even have a licence but were happy to see, eventually, their pride and joy be flown by others.

So, where are you on this spectrum? I'd be inclined to look for a used or part finished project to have ready to fly next year; but that's me. If fellow forumites get you up in one and your enthusiasm to start yours from scratch is confirmed how long do you envisage building will take?

Have to say there's a Tri-gear XS that comes over here fairly regularly and it really motors. I've seen 140kts on FR24 so it looks like a good choice.
Charliesixtysix liked this
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By gyrotyro
#1653192
Hi

I also own and fly a TrigearXS (my third one) Please PM me if you would like to chat. BTW I am 5' 11" and 106 kgs so on the large side and don't have any problems fitting in or operating controls, toe brakes on mine.

I have also owned an RV-6A and a 7A and although they are wonderful machines my Europa with a fixed pitched prop cruises at 120kts at 5250 RPM and 130kts at 5500 RPM on 18 LPH of MOGAS. An RV would arrive before me but using at least 30 LPH of AVGAS which is where the Europa scores for me. Also I can take the wings off and trailer it home for Winter work or even to a paint shop.

I can get from Scotland to Popham in 2.5 hours but realistically I would probably stop off for fuel at Sherburn for a UL91 fuel stop.
Bobcro liked this
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By ivor.phillips
#1653223
As cloudhound said there are plenty of builders that love to build and do very little flying before starting the next build, I’m not one of them :shock: I much prefer the flying even though the building is very satisfying on completion,

I have been flying mine for 10 years and regularly get mail courtesy of GINFO asking if I want to sell so obviously many people would prefer to fly then to build,

One of the greatest pleasures was lining up for its first flight opening up the throttle and being amazed at how well it flew :thumleft: IMO it’s the nearest a man can be to giving birth :lol:
Bobcro liked this
By Big Dex
#1653259
I also have an XS Trigear, and love it.

I’m 6’ and 104kg, so also not small, but I still fly it comfortably from Manchester to the Med in half a day with a single fuel/customs stop. Mine’s at Barton, but I’d be happy to take you up in it.
By G-JWTP
#1653274
Quick thought,

Go buy some aero resin, hardener and some glass fibre and do a patch test on your skin.
If you react badly then I would suggest building either a wood or aluminium aircraft.

If you are alergic then building in glass fibre will be an ordeal.

G-JWTP
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By ivor.phillips
#1653312
Why would you want to do a patch test on your skin? ( this in it self could cause a reaction). You should always use quality disposable gloves with barrier cream and full overalls with a face mask, The likelihood of a allergic skin reaction with the new type of resins being used is very small,
it like any job, using the correct equipment with proper training goes along way to avoiding problems
By pilotea
#1653379
gyrotyro wrote:
I have also owned an RV-6A and a 7A and although they are wonderful machines my Europa with a fixed pitched prop cruises at 120kts at 5250 RPM and 130kts at 5500 RPM on 18 LPH of MOGAS. An RV would arrive before me but using at least 30 LPH of AVGAS


Almost any RV will do 120 kts and burn 18 liters of fuel per hour, some can even fly on MOGAS if approved by the LAA. There is no substitute for power... it's always nice to have when you need it. Europas are fine aircraft, no doubt about that, but have limitations.
By Big Dex
#1653381
As mentioned, I’m a Europa owner; however if I were to be buying a new kit and building it myself, I would choose an RV over a Europa; I suspect the difference in build cost is minimal, the RV is probably a faster build (or around the same if bought flat pack), and the value of the finished product is worth best part of 2x as much.
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By gonzohop
#1653424
CloudHound wrote:So, where are you on this spectrum? I'd be inclined to look for a used or part finished project to have ready to fly next year; but that's me. If fellow forumites get you up in one and your enthusiasm to start yours from scratch is confirmed how long do you envisage building will take?


Ooh, there's a question. I think one of my biggest worries is staying power with a project of this magnitude. I'm not afraid of hard graft - but I do get bored easily! This is unchartered territory for me but I think the disappointment in myself if I were to give up would inspire me to plough on through to the end no matter what. Another point is I've only just started my PPL and I'm not likely to finish that until middle part of next year. I would anticipate the build taking between 2 and 3 years, looking at blogs of other builds. Great post - thank you - really got me thinking. :D

gyrotyro wrote:I have also owned an RV-6A and a 7A and although they are wonderful machines my Europa with a fixed pitched prop cruises at 120kts at 5250 RPM and 130kts at 5500 RPM on 18 LPH of MOGAS. An RV would arrive before me but using at least 30 LPH of AVGAS which is where the Europa scores for me. Also I can take the wings off and trailer it home for Winter work or even to a paint shop..


I looked at Vans and and quite frankly I love the RV-12is - it would be my first choice if it wasn't for the fact they are Stateside - it ticks all the boxes apart from shipping and duty woes, which is why I'm liking the Europa. The detachable wings are a must - I want to keep the plane in my garage. Will definately PM - thank you! :thumleft:

ivor.phillips wrote:One of the greatest pleasures was lining up for its first flight opening up the throttle and being amazed at how well it flew :thumleft: IMO it’s the nearest a man can be to giving birth :lol:


Haha! Sounds painful! :lol:

Big Dex wrote:I’m 6’ and 104kg, so also not small, but I still fly it comfortably from Manchester to the Med in half a day with a single fuel/customs stop. Mine’s at Barton, but I’d be happy to take you up in it.


That would be awesome - thank you! Will PM. :thumleft:

Big Dex wrote:As mentioned, I’m a Europa owner; however if I were to be buying a new kit and building it myself, I would choose an RV over a Europa; I suspect the difference in build cost is minimal, the RV is probably a faster build (or around the same if bought flat pack), and the value of the finished product is worth best part of 2x as much.


That's very interesting. I'm just put off by shipping costs and duty charges. :?
By Big Dex
#1653448
I figure build costs on a Europa would be of the order of:

£36000 kit
£16k engine
£8k prop (airmaster is the only choice imho)
£10k avionics
£10k paint, upholstery and finishing.

Worth comparing that with RV costs, even with import costs.
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By gonzohop
#1653463
Big Dex wrote:I figure build costs on a Europa would be of the order of:

£36000 kit
£16k engine
£8k prop (airmaster is the only choice imho)
£10k avionics
£10k paint, upholstery and finishing.

Worth comparing that with RV costs, even with import costs.


Thanks - very useful. :D

patowalker wrote:
I'm just put off by shipping costs and duty charges


There is no import duty on aircraft parts, only VAT.


Useful info - many thanks. :thumright: