Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By johnm
#1653098
So on the 21st March my EASA licence and EASA. Aeroplane magically revert to U.K. CAA which hopefully will be recognised at ICAO and so we can carry on as we are.
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By G-BLEW
#1653099
johnm wrote:So on the 21st March my EASA licence and EASA. Aeroplane magically revert to U.K. CAA which hopefully will be recognised at ICAO and so we can carry on as we are.


29th isn't it?

Ian
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By Lockhaven
#1653108
G-BLEW wrote:
SteveC wrote:You really need to stop posting on this as you clearly do not understand the position.


…but that's how conversations and learning takes place.

Ian


Nah he clearly already knows everything there is to know.
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By PaulB
#1653124
Bathman wrote:I find it very disappointing that EASA will not recognise an (UK issued) EASA licence after Brexit and presumably not even allow a SOLI after that date.

Almost seems vindictive.


My guess is that on Brexit day, a UK EASA licence will be the same as an EASA one, but after that we could make changes on our side (because we’ve taken back control) that they don’t agree with so a UK issue licence will be the same in their eyes as any other foreign state’s.

As an aside, in this thread about AFPEX* FPL addressing, @Chevvron mentions Eurocontrol. Is that a completely separate body from EASA or will that also be affected by Brexit.

* I didn’t think anyone actually used AFPEX any more!
By johnm
#1653125
Bathman wrote:I find it very disappointing that EASA will not recognise an (UK issued) EASA licence after Brexit and presumably not even allow a SOLI after that date.

Almost seems vindictive.



You have to understand that the UK, if no longer a member of EASA, can't issue or revalidate an EASA licence, the logic is inescapable. The only way forward is to move the licence to a state that IS a member of EASA and then it's like being a Brit with an FAA licence. There will be ATOs and DTOs with EASA certification, but that certification came from the UK CAA and may become invalid unless they too get sign off from a sympathetic EASA NAA. On the plus side EASA have already opened the door for maintenance shops to continue their certification as third country EASA certified operations.
By AlanC
#1653128
johnm wrote:You have to understand that the UK, if no longer a member of EASA, can't issue or revalidate an EASA licence, the logic is inescapable. The only way forward is to move the licence to a state that IS a member of EASA and then it's like being a Brit with an FAA licence. There will be ATOs and DTOs with EASA certification, but that certification came from the UK CAA and may become invalid unless they too get sign off from a sympathetic EASA NAA. On the plus side EASA have already opened the door for maintenance shops to continue their certification as third country EASA certified operations.


A broadly correct summary of the significant issues potentially facing us next year. The fundamental point is that there is no such thing as an EASA licence, in the same way as there was no such thing as a JAA licence, and there is no such thing as an ICAO licence. There are UK issued licences which are EASA compliant - the worry is that this compliance will cease automatically at 2300 on March 29th, although the ICAO compliance will remain. Well, apart from the LAPL...

Yes, this is no huge deal to an individual pilot as long as your licence issuing state and aircraft registration match, and it won't automatically shut down my flying activities overnight. But it is an issue for companies and FIs/FEs (in which I include FE, CRE, IRE, TRE, FIE...) who at present enjoy the freedom to test on aircraft registered in other EASA Member States without extensive validation paperwork/costs, or to train/test individuals with licences issued in other EASA MS without too much hassle.

This is all worst case of course, but....! :shock:
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By johnm
#1653135
although the ICAO compliance will remain. Well, apart from the LAPL...


Even that is slightly questionable as our position at ICAO is currently as EU state so that will need to be adjusted. I don't think it will be a significant problem, but it's yet more detailed work needing time and effort......
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By PaulB
#1653136
johnm wrote:Even that is slightly questionable as our position at ICAO is currently as EU state....


When did that happen? Surely not when we joined the EU? I thought one of the issues (for EASA) was that ICAO didn’t recognise the EU as a state.

That said, whatever the situation, it is turning into a complete messy nightmare that will keep civil servants and lawyers (on both sides of the Channel) in gainful employment for decades to come.
By johnm
#1653139
PaulB wrote:
johnm wrote:Even that is slightly questionable as our position at ICAO is currently as EU state....


When did that happen? Surely not when we joined the EU? I thought one of the issues (for EASA) was that ICAO didn’t recognise the EU as a state.

That said, whatever the situation, it is turning into a complete messy nightmare that will keep civil servants and lawyers (on both sides of the Channel) in gainful employment for decades to come.


I don't know for sure, but I suspect that it was part of the EASA set up arrangements.
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By Lockhaven
#1653146
johnm wrote:
Bathman wrote:I find it very disappointing that EASA will not recognise an (UK issued) EASA licence after Brexit and presumably not even allow a SOLI after that date.

Almost seems vindictive.



You have to understand that the UK, if no longer a member of EASA, can't issue or revalidate an EASA licence, the logic is inescapable. The only way forward is to move the licence to a state that IS a member of EASA and then it's like being a Brit with an FAA licence. There will be ATOs and DTOs with EASA certification, but that certification came from the UK CAA and may become invalid unless they too get sign off from a sympathetic EASA NAA. On the plus side EASA have already opened the door for maintenance shops to continue their certification as third country EASA certified operations.


And at the moment no one actually knows wether or not the UK will or will not remain a member of EASA or an associate member of the EU the same as Norway and Switzerland, its all supposition, even the CAA website is full of if's but's and maybe's.

Airlines such as Easyjet moving everything to an Austrian registration and pilots changing EASA licences accordingly is a plan A scenario so in the event of a no deal the airline doesn't get grounded overnight. But once the dust has settled my guess is they will return to their UK operation. :wink:
By johnm
#1653147
The uncertainty is a pain for everybody, but for the likes of Easyjet, having moved their operations at no small expense and inconvenience, there would need to be some positive incentive to make it worthwhile to change back again I think.
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