Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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#1653035
It strikes me that above all else, what we're all criticising is the fact that we really don't know what's going to happen next.

I think that all of the people involved - senior management at CAA, HMG, the EC, and EASA - with the obvious point that the more senior, the more culpable as the most senior people should have been instructing and/or not obstructing the more junior people, are culpable.

There should have been clarity of the planning process and way ahead, long before this. There should have been clear statements in the latest 585 page extravaganza of the plans, and there should be statements of the backup plans if that goes wrong.

This is irrespective of whether we stay in EASA, become more independent again, take some halfway like Norway or Switzerland - there should be a statement of what is most likely to happen, and of the planning for it, that we can all see.

Basically, we've not been well served have we. Okay, hobby aviators are on the fringes, but the major airlines are not, are part of the same system, and should be well informed of what they should be preparing for - even if that is a list of three possible outcomes.

G
By johnm
#1653036
@Genghis the Engineer While I agree entirely about contingency planning, the 585 pages only really covers the actual withdrawal and transition arrangements. They say little or nothing about the future arrangements. All we have on future arrangements is the political declaration which we've seen quoted in this thread. That's merely a set of "ground rules" for a negotiation, nothing more.
By WingsOff
#1653039
I can tell you, Airbus in the UK has been planning for the worse case scenario for some time, and this (i.e. very high probability of UK not remaining in EASA as now stated clearly in current intent docs, with either (1) 'May's Deal' or (2) 'No Deal', is the worse case scenario. We can only pray that we end up with (3) No Brexit
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By Lockhaven
#1653052
Lockhaven
And what a prime time for the LAA, BMAA, BGA etc to remove the burden from the CAA and take over the full running of GA in the UK leaving the CAA to concentrate on commercial ops.

johnm
I'm not quite sure how that would be a help to those of us flying IFR internationally...…..

Lockhaven
What licence are you using now to fly IFR internationally ?

johnm wrote:EASA PPL/IR in an EASA certified aeroplane....


So you carry on as normal with your EASA PPL/IR and EASA aircraft I don't see were your problem is.
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By G-BLEW
#1653061
GtE wrote:Basically, we've not been well served have we. Okay, hobby aviators are on the fringes, but the major airlines are not, are part of the same system, and should be well informed of what they should be preparing for - even if that is a list of three possible outcomes.


That's why EasyJet is registering aircraft in Austria, and converting something like 1500 licences over to the Austrians

Lockhaven wrote:So you carry on as normal with your EASA PPL/IR and EASA aircraft I don't see were your problem is.


I guess the problem will potentially arise with maintenance and future upgrades/certification/licensing etc., that could turn out to be seamless, or it could turn out to be a right royal pain in the empennage. Who knows?

Ian
By ak7274
#1653063
Of course HMG has already stated that the UK will accept EASA aircraft and licences into our airports without getting assurances from EASA that UK ICAO licences and aircraft will be allowed onto Europe.
This really is a Bodge.
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By G-BLEW
#1653070
ak7274 wrote:Of course HMG has already stated that the UK will accept EASA aircraft and licences into our airports without getting assurances from EASA that UK ICAO licences and aircraft will be allowed onto Europe.
This really is a Bodge.


UK licences will be fine on G reg aircraft.

It is entirely possible/likely (if we are not EASA members) that G reg licences will not be transferable without hassle to European licences. Not a major problem if you fly G reg, but a pain in the backside if you are a professional pilot flying for an airline with aircraft registered in Austria, Ireland, Hungary etc. etc.

Ian
Flyin'Dutch', Lockhaven liked this
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By Lockhaven
#1653082
G-BLEW wrote:
ak7274 wrote:Of course HMG has already stated that the UK will accept EASA aircraft and licences into our airports without getting assurances from EASA that UK ICAO licences and aircraft will be allowed onto Europe.
This really is a Bodge.


UK licences will be fine on G reg aircraft.

It is entirely possible/likely (if we are not EASA members) that G reg licences will not be transferable without hassle to European licences. Not a major problem if you fly G reg, but a pain in the backside if you are a professional pilot flying for an airline with aircraft registered in Austria, Ireland, Hungary etc. etc.

Ian


But surely what you are implying is that the day after Brexit all holders of a UK EASA licence will be null void, which is not the case.

You can hold an EASA licence regardless of which country you live in and if you already have a UK EASA commercial licence that will remain valid provided you keep it current IAW EASA rules, which if working for a European airline or bizjet operator should be straight forward as these renewals take place with a recognised EASA ATO and simulator of which there are many.
#1653085
Lockhaven wrote:But surely what you are implying is that the day after Brexit all holders of a UK EASA licence will be null void, which is not the case.

You can hold an EASA licence regardless of which country you live in and if you already have a UK EASA commercial licence that will remain valid provided you keep it current IAW EASA rules, which if working for a European airline or bizjet operator should be straight forward as these renewals take place with a recognised EASA ATO and simulator of which there are many.


I remember asking about a year ago why an EASA PPL wouldnt remain an EASA PPL regardless of whether or not the UK issued it or another EU state did, it has EASA written on it after all, even after the UK left the EU - and was roundly told I was wrong....something to do with agreements and legislation no longer applying and what-not... :roll:

Regards, SD..
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By G-BLEW
#1653088
Lockhaven wrote:But surely what you are implying is that the day after Brexit all holders of a UK EASA licence will be null void, which is not the case.

You can hold an EASA licence regardless of which country you live in and if you already have a UK EASA commercial licence that will remain valid provided you keep it current IAW EASA rules, which if working for a European airline or bizjet operator should be straight forward as these renewals take place with a recognised EASA ATO and simulator of which there are many.


From the CAA microsite for commercial pilots

The European Commission has said that it would not recognise UK-issued Part-FCL licences.

To continue operating EU-registered aircraft, you may seek a licence validation from any EASA Competent Authority, which would be valid for aircraft registered in any EASA Member State. You cannot seek this until after the UK has formally withdrawn from the EU.

We recommend that you speak to the relevant NAA as soon as possible about the process for achieving a validation of your UK issued Part-FCL licence.

Alternatively, you may undertake a State of Licence Issue transfer before 29 March 2019. This means transferring your licence from the UK to another EASA member state.
User avatar
By SteveC
#1653091
Lockhaven wrote:
G-BLEW wrote:
ak7274 wrote:Of course HMG has already stated that the UK will accept EASA aircraft and licences into our airports without getting assurances from EASA that UK ICAO licences and aircraft will be allowed onto Europe.
This really is a Bodge.


UK licences will be fine on G reg aircraft.

It is entirely possible/likely (if we are not EASA members) that G reg licences will not be transferable without hassle to European licences. Not a major problem if you fly G reg, but a pain in the backside if you are a professional pilot flying for an airline with aircraft registered in Austria, Ireland, Hungary etc. etc.

Ian


But surely what you are implying is that the day after Brexit all holders of a UK EASA licence will be null void, which is not the case.

You can hold an EASA licence regardless of which country you live in and if you already have a UK EASA commercial licence that will remain valid provided you keep it current IAW EASA rules, which if working for a European airline or bizjet operator should be straight forward as these renewals take place with a recognised EASA ATO and simulator of which there are many.


You really need to stop posting on this as you clearly do not understand the position.
By SteveX
#1653093
Gosh all those US and Japanese etc pilots flying into the EU every day on their foreign non-EASA licenses with non-EU registered aricraft. How do we cope. No news here, move on people.
User avatar
By G-BLEW
#1653095
SteveX wrote:Gosh all those US and Japanese etc pilots flying into the EU every day on their foreign non-EASA licenses with non-EU registered aricraft. How do we cope. No news here, move on people.


SteveX, you've got it wrong. One more time…

No problem G reg aircraft and CAA licence. Aircraft registered elsewhere in EU with UK issued licence = problem.

peter272 wrote:So let's have a Flyer flyin to Cherbourg or L2K on 30th March and see what happens


Why would there be a problem (apart from any upcoming changes in customs regs)?

Ian
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