Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Lockhaven
#1653219
Call me a cynic, but charging a fee to re-issue an EASA approval you already held, scaremongering springs to mind.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/brexit

EASA
Update 22/11/2018 - related to the acceptance of early applications

The process:
Early applications, as mentioned in our update from 02/10/2018 in the context of the UK withdrawal from the Union, will be processed in a streamlined way. Please find below an overview of the steps and milestones of this process:

The application form and all required documentation is sent to EASA.
EASA checks the completeness of the file. If needed, EASA requests further documentation. No application will be processed until the file is complete.
EASA provides you, via email, with the task number of your application.
EASA issues and sends the invoice for your application.
Upon receipt of payment of the invoice, EASA proceeds with desk review of your application.
EASA issues the certificate and provides you with a confirmation that the EASA certificate is ready, as well as the EASA approval number (if applicable).
Your certificate will be sent to you by email on 30th March 2019.
On 30th March 2019, the surveillance/recurrent phase of your project starts, following the standard EASA processes and fees. (see below: the surveillance/recurrent cycle)
In the week following 30th March 2019, the hard copy of your certificate is sent to you.
The fee:

The fee to cover the costs of issuing the approval for the special application is 8 working hours charged at the hourly rate referred to in point 2 of Part II of the Annex to Commission Regulation (EU) No. 319/2014, subject to the annual inflation rate.
Your application will only be processed once the payment has been received by EASA.
This fee is non-refundable, regardless of the outcome of the Brexit negotiations.
Should you send a revised application, after payment of the fee, it will be considered as a new application attracting a new fee.
The EASA certificate:

The scope of the EASA certificate will mirror that of your existing UK approval. No variations contained in your application will be taken into account.
As a general indication EASA will apply a desk review procedure so we expect that your approval will be granted in a matter of weeks. However this cannot be guaranteed if the volume of applications exceeds expectations.
Your EASA certificate is valid as of 30th March 2019.
The electronic copy of your EASA certificate will be sent to you on 30th March 2019. The hard copy will be sent to you the following week.


And a couple of points worthy of note given previous discussions in this thread. (my bold)

EASA
Update 02/10/2018

In the ongoing process of preparing for the UK withdrawal from the Union, the EU institutions have been actively engaged in identifying and putting in place possible preparedness measures in anticipation of that event.

In this context EASA will start to process some applications for Third Country approvals from existing UK approval holders.

From 2nd October 2018, applications will be accepted for the following types of organisation:

Approval type Application form
Production Organisation Approval - POA (EASA Form 55)
EASA Form 50

Application for Part 21 POA Production

Letters of agreement for production without a POA (EASA Form 65)
No dedicated application form available. Please contact applicant services.

Maintenance Organisation Approvals - MOA (EASA Form 3 & Form 3MF)
EASA Form 2

Application for foreign Part-145 and Part-M Subpart G Approval

Maintenance Training Organisation Approvals - MTOA (EASA Form 11) EASA Form 12

Application for foreign Part-147 approval
Continuing Airworthiness Maintenance Organisation - САМО approvals (EASA Form 14) EASA Form 2

Application for foreign Part-145 and Part-M Subpart G Approval
Flight Simulator Training Devices - FSTD (EASA Form 145)
FO.FCTOA.00129

Application for Initial Activities related to Flight Simulation Training Devices

Approved Training Organisations - ATO (EASA Form 143)
FO.FCTOA.00010

Application for a Part-ORA ATO (Pilot Training Organisation) Approval

Aero-Medical Centres - AeMC certificates (EASA Form 146)
FO.FCTOA.00015

Application for a Part-ORA Aero-Medical Centre Approval


To avoid delays applicants are requested to submit the following supporting information together with their application forms:

Copy of the existing UK approval;
Copy of Certificate of Incorporation/Business Registration;
A PDF screenshot of the registry overview of your organisation from the companieshouse website (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/) Please make sure the company number and registered office address is included;
Copy of the latest audit report(s) from the UK CAA containing all outstanding findings and related corrective action plan, as well as enforcement actions (if any).

IMPORTANT TO NOTE – Negotiations for the United Kingdom's withdrawal are ongoing at the time of this notification. The final outcome of those negotiations cannot be pre-empted. Applicants must therefore bear in mind that this initiative is being launched in anticipation of a possible so-called 'no deal' scenario which would result in the United Kingdom's effective withdrawal as of midnight (00h00) on 29 March 2019. However, in case of a positive outcome to the negotiations a transition period of 21 months until 31 December 2020 will be opened, during which everything will remain as it is today, and during which current approvals would remain valid until that date or their expiry date whichever comes first.
On this basis it is important to note that the decision whether to proceed with a Third Country approval application or not is ultimately the sole responsibility of the applicant.


For these applications fees or charges will be levied by EASA in accordance with Commission Regulation (EU) 319/2014 on the fees and charges levied by the European Aviation Safety Agency.

Last edited by Lockhaven on Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
#1653224
johnm wrote:I don't know for sure, but I suspect that it was part of the EASA set up arrangements.


The UK is an ICAO member state in its own right. https://www.icao.int/about-icao/Council/Pages/council-states-2016-2019.aspx

PART I −
​States of chief importance in air transport
Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russian Federation, United Kingdom and the United States.
johnm liked this
By johnm
#1653225
Joff wrote:Can someone point me to the wording in the document linked from the first post that says we can’t be an associate member of EASA as per Norway etc


It's more a question of "won't " rather than "can't" see various discussions about bonkers "red lines" relating to ECJ. There are two references to aviation the political declaration quoted below for your delectation.....

While preserving regulatory autonomy, the Parties will put in place provisions to promote regulatory approaches that are transparent, efficient, promote avoidance of unnecessary barriers to trade in goods and are compatible to the extent possible. Disciplines on technical barriers to trade (TBT) and sanitary and phytosanitary measures (SPS) should build on and go beyond the respective WTO agreements. Specifically, the TBT disciplines should set out common principles in the fields of standardisation, technical regulations, conformity assessment, accreditation, market surveillance, metrology and labelling. The Parties should treat one another as single entities as regards SPS measures, including for certification purposes, and recognise regionalisation on the basis of appropriate epidemiological information provided by the exporting party. The Parties will also explore the possibility of cooperation of United Kingdom authorities with Union agencies such as the European Medicines Agency (EMA), the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA), and the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA).


The Parties should ensure passenger and cargo air connectivity through a Comprehensive Air Transport Agreement (CATA). The CATA should cover market access and investment, aviation safety and security, air traffic management, and provisions to ensure open and fair competition, including appropriate and relevant consumer protection requirements and social standards.

61. The Parties should make further arrangements to enable cooperation with a view to high standards of aviation safety and security, including through close cooperation between EASA and the United Kingdom's Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).
By johnm
#1653227
patowalker wrote:
johnm wrote:I don't know for sure, but I suspect that it was part of the EASA set up arrangements.


The UK is an ICAO member state in its own right. https://www.icao.int/about-icao/Council/Pages/council-states-2016-2019.aspx

PART I −
​States of chief importance in air transport
Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russian Federation, United Kingdom and the United States.



Indeed but there are still a few bits of paperwork to be reversed.....

Upon signature of the Convention, the United Kingdom, Member State of the European Community, declared that, “in accordance with the Treaty establishing the European Community, the Community has competence to take actions in certain matters governed by the Convention”.

13 Declaration by the Government of the United Kingdom in respect of its signature lodged with the depositary on 11 March 2005: “The United Kingdom, member of the European Community, declares that, in accordance with the Treaty establishing the European Community, the Community has competence with respect to certain matters governed by the Convention. Signature of the Convention on behalf of the Community will be decided by the competent Community institutions in accordance with the provisions of the Treaty”.


- 7 -

Ratification was for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the territories of Gibraltar, the Cayman Islands and the Island of Guernsey. At the time of ratification, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland made declarations under Articles 39(1)(a), 39(1)(b), 39(4), 52, 53 and 54(2) of the Convention. The ratification became effective on 1 November 2015.

On 14 June 2017, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland notified UNIDROIT that it wishes to extend the application of the Convention to the territories of Bermuda and the Isle of Man. At the time of notification, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland made subsequent declarations under Articles 39(1)(a), 39(1)(b), 39(4), 52, 53 and 54(2) of the Convention, effective on 1 January 2018 in relation to Bermuda and the Isle of Man.

14 Declaration by the Government of the United Kingdom in respect of its signature lodged with the depositary on 11 March 2005: “The United Kingdom, member of the European Community, declares that, in accordance with the Treaty establishing the European Community, the Community has competence with respect to certain matters governed by the Protocol. Signature of the Protocol on behalf of the Community will be decided by the competent Community institution in accordance with the provisions of the Treaty”.


Ratification was for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the territories of Gibraltar, the Cayman Islands and the Island of Guernsey. At the time of ratification, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland made declarations under Articles XXIX, XXX(1), (2) and (3) of the Protocol. The ratification became effective on 1 November 2015.


On 14 June 2017, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland notified UNIDROIT that it wishes to extend the application of the Protocol to the territories of Bermuda and the Isle of Man. At the time of notification, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland made subsequent declarations under Articles XXIX, XXX(1), (2) and (3) of the Protocol, effective on 1 January 2018 in relation to Bermuda and the Isle of Man.
By Bathman
#1653234
I can see it now. Sorry MR B all your training towards you PPL that occured before the 29th of march 2019 can no longer count towards your UK PPL. But what about that trial lesson I did in 1977? Oh yes that's fine.
#1653272
How about the aggrieved parties suing EASA / ICAO in the European Court (irony, there) On the basis they had already accepted the compliance and validity of the issued licences and subsequent refusal to accept them was immoral, vexatious ,malicious and without foundation, as the licence still met the requirements, irrespective of the issuing authority.


Perhaps hauling the individuals to the E.Court, on the charge of misuse of office, would concentrate a few minds on a sensible and pragmatic solution, instead of these childish games with other peoples' lives and careers.

Alternatively, perhaps we could always retaliate by rescinding acceptance of all licences, airworthiness certificates......and anything else we chose to.
pplmeir liked this
By johnm
#1653295
It’s quite interesting we spend a great deal of time discussing the difficulties Brexit faces us with. No one has come up with a solitary useful Brexit benefit, but an amazing number of Leavers still stick to their guns :shock:
Smaragd, Katamarino liked this
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