[Miscellaneous]

Probably 700ft underneath me.

And did it make the news and require investigation?

Reminds me of when I was walking at about 700ft in the Great Glen and a C130 passed below and not too far off my starboard side.

[patowalker]

AFAIK, in the US they want everyone to use ADS-B/UAT as a replacement technology to Radar/SSR. I presume they're staffing/equipping their ATC to use it. They're only mandating GA to transmit, not receive, so they're not engaged in GA having personal benefit from the technology.

¿Qué?

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/capabilities/benefits/

[malcolmfrost]

Incidentally I've filed an airprox for this incident.

[exfirepro]

@malcolmfrost

Would you mind saying whether that decision was in any way influenced by:

a) Comments on here

b) Lack of feedback from the other Pilot

Just interested.

Regards

Peter

[TC_LTN]

Hopefully influenced by the definition of an AIRPROX and a desire to contribute to a Just Culture.

[exfirepro]

@TC_LTN

I agree wholeheartedly, but would be interested to know if Malcolm’s decision might have been (unduly) influenced in either direction by some of the strongly expressed views on here.

@malcolmfrost

Malcolm,

I have specific reasons for asking and would be happy to hear your thoughts ‘in confidence’. Please PM me if you don’t want to post openly.

Regards

Peter

[malcolmfrost]

My motivation was to really publicise this type of incident, and how a potentially serious situation was saved by EC. Neither of us were at fault IMHO, we were in the open FIR at a "non-standard" altitude (2300 ft). I was on a listening squawk, I don't know whether the other pilot was, but he/she didn't need to be.

[TheArb]

[malcolmfrost]

Just for completeness, the Airprox board report is now complete
https://www.airproxboard.org.uk/uploadedFiles/Content/Standard_content/Airprox_report_files/2018/Airprox%20Report%202018292.pdf

[Full Metal Jackass]

Having struggled my way through this thread, I see there are people saying PAW isn't optimum because of 'Flarm only available via OGN-R' or responding that it's 'better to have ADS-B using (e.g.) Sky Echo 2.

The thing is - and I've said this repeatedly - I fly an aircraft with Mode S transponder (GTX330-ES) but not WAAS navigators (only GNS430 installed). To transmit ADS-B out via GTX330ES I would need to add a certified GPS source for around 4K or upgrade the transponder to a unit with it's own certified GPS source. If it could be achieved for less than 1k, I'd do it. But it can't.

To transmit ADS-B out via (e.g.) Sky Echo, then currently I need to switch off the transmit function of either Sky-Echo or the transponder (question: legality of doing so? The latest rules state that you must ensure any functioning transponder installed is switched ON.) So let's just assume I turn off the TX functionality of Sky Echo and use it only for ADS-B in - then I'm basically little more than a black hole - listening but lurking.

Concerning PAW, I added a Flarm Eagle to my unit because I wanted to see Gliders / other Flarm targets irrespective of OGN broadcasts - very few of them on the continent, unfortunately. With this setup, the only targets who can't see me are those using EC units receiving only ADS-B in. But as most EC units typically receive Mode S warnings, I personally believe my solution, PAW with connected Flarm Eagle unit, is the optimum in terms of providing the widest spectrum of warnings to myself and to others per $$$.

[patowalker]

I suppose saying PAW gives you the biggest bang for your buck would be inappropriate.

[Marvin]

Having struggled my way through this thread, I see there are people saying PAW isn't optimum because of 'Flarm only available via OGN-R' or responding that it's 'better to have ADS-B using (e.g.) Sky Echo 2.

The thing is - and I've said this repeatedly - I fly an aircraft with Mode S transponder (GTX330-ES) but not WAAS navigators (only GNS430 installed). To transmit ADS-B out via GTX330ES I would need to add a certified GPS source for around 4K or upgrade the transponder to a unit with it's own certified GPS source. If it could be achieved for less than 1k, I'd do it. But it can't. .

Have you explored using the recent CS Stan released by EASA which would allow you to use an uncertified source e.g. the FLARM box you say you have installed.? Does that not solve your problem?

[Paul_Sengupta]

The thing is - and I've said this repeatedly - I fly an aircraft with Mode S transponder (GTX330-ES) but not WAAS navigators (only GNS430 installed). To transmit ADS-B out via GTX330ES I would need to add a certified GPS source for around 4K or upgrade the transponder to a unit with it's own certified GPS source. If it could be achieved for less than 1k, I'd do it. But it can't.

Ah. Well...

1) I don't know about the behaviour of the 330-ES but with at least one other American ADS-B capable transponder, the GNS-430 puts out the required RS232 GPS position - but - only when you enter a route in it, otherwise it doesn't.

2) https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=111834

[Full Metal Jackass]

Having struggled my way through this thread, I see there are people saying PAW isn't optimum because of 'Flarm only available via OGN-R' or responding that it's 'better to have ADS-B using (e.g.) Sky Echo 2.

The thing is - and I've said this repeatedly - I fly an aircraft with Mode S transponder (GTX330-ES) but not WAAS navigators (only GNS430 installed). To transmit ADS-B out via GTX330ES I would need to add a certified GPS source for around 4K or upgrade the transponder to a unit with it's own certified GPS source. If it could be achieved for less than 1k, I'd do it. But it can't. .

Have you explored using the recent CS Stan released by EASA which would allow you to use an uncertified source e.g. the FLARM box you say you have installed.? Does that not solve your problem?

As far as I'm aware, the release states that the manufacturer must state that the source is compatible - or something along that lines. When will Garmin state that any uncertified GPS source would be compatible when they can demand $$$ for their own solution?

edited to add the following extract:

the compatibility of the combination of the transponder and the GNSS receiver is explicitly stated by the manufacturer of the transponder.


As Garmin only approve the WAAS receivers for use as a source of GPS for the GTX330ES, this CS Stan does not help.

[gaznav]

I go back to my original comments for which I was ‘flamed’ - it is hard to prove it “saved anyone’s life” and to me the BE-58’s pilot’s comments ring the truest to me:

Regarding the PilotAware function he says that he uses a PilotAware Rosetta unit as a portable installation. The unit was attached to the windshield with a suction mount, resting on the coaming, approximately in the centre with antennas near vertical. There is no obvious facility to connect the PilotAware to the intercom in this aircraft. The associated traffic display was via SkyDemon on a yoke- mounted iPad Mini. His overall experience with PilotAware has been that it was limited in giving useful traffic information. Either, the other traffic was not emitting a compatible signal or the reception was not adequate to give a timely warning. The presentation on SkyDemon is such that 'own ship' is clearly marked relative to the magenta route line. This makes it easy to quickly glance at the screen and see position relative to planned track, airspace etc. By contrast, the traffic presentation is less easy to interpret. He remembers looking at Sky Demon a few minutes before the incident and seeing multiple returns (presumably commercial traffic) at Southampton, and clusters of gliders at Parham, possibly also at Lasham. The display alerted him to the fact that there was a lot of traffic around, but it would take time to interpret what might be a threat. Thus, he was concentrating on looking outside with the expectation of seeing other traffic. His conclusion was that PilotAware was 'better than nothing' but he needed to arrange for a simplified display at coaming level and find some method for integrating audio.

He concluded his report by saying that this was another reminder of the limitations of 'see and avoid' for aircraft that are head-on or at a shallow angle. He was ‘eyes-peeled’ at the time and still didn't visually acquire the aircraft until relatively late. Recently, he observed two light-coloured aircraft on final against a grey sky, one had their landing light on and the other didn't. It was possible to spot the aircraft with the landing light at least 10 seconds before the one without. He really thinks that pilots should be encouraged to use the landing light at all times when airborne, especially in hazy or light-grey cloud conditions.

He assessed the risk of collision as ‘None’.

So here is the rub from my perspective - we keep asking for rebroadcast from ground stations when really that info is just plainly a distraction. By the time we get there at our GA speeds any traffic that is more than 10 miles away is just a nuisance and draws our eyes away needlessly. Do I care about traffic in the instrument pattern 20 miles away or the rebroadcast FLARM from a bunch of gliders at Lasham a similar distance away - no. We need the audio of SkyDemon and the simple Traffic Display of SkyDemon - that is all - other providers of Nav displays should decide to follow suit and stop giving the capability to display things that are quite frankly a danger to peoples’ curiosity.

I looked at EasyVFR and I can’t say I’m that impressed with the free version - very clunky graphics on my iPad Air. So for now, I’ll stick with SkyDemon on the iPad, the Traffic Display via an old iPhone mounted at eye level and a pair of in-ear bluetooth earphones worn inside my headset to hear the SkyDemon audio (as cheap as £10 on eBay). That way I can independently adjust the sound between my headset and my in-ear bluetooth earphones.

This is SkyDemon’s simple Traffic Display:

It would be really great @Tim Dawson if you could put the GPS track and ground speed on this at the top.