[seanxair]

Pretty sure there have been 2 hand propping incidents resulting in runaway aircraft in the AAIB reports over the last year. Moments of inattention or distraction by normally dligent and careful people. We are all fallible.

[Paul_Sengupta]

If friends of mine have hand propped aeroplanes, are on their own in the aeroplane and I'm there, I'll always offer to swing the prop while they're sitting in the aeroplane. 9 out of 10 times they'll say yes, though there's the 1 out of 10 who have a well oiled routine and prefer to do it themselves.

I've hand swung PA38s, PA28s and C172s before, but never a Cirrus, and never with no one in the aeroplane!

[Aeronca Alan]

From the correspondence it seems he wasn't a local pilot and couldn't get the services of an engineer until two days later. It's a case of "get-home-itus" (however one spells that). I've no idea exactly what he did wrong (brakes not set, throttle set too high etc) but those of us hand-swingers have, if we are honest, had a "there but for the grace of God" moment.

However, the following accumulation of facts suggest that this guy was stupidly too casual:
1. He had allowed the battery to go flat.
2. He didn't use chocks (of any kind).
3. There were only a few minutes between his 'phone call seeking help and the incident. i.e. he didn't allow much 'cool head' time. You'd have thought, given his predicament, that he'd have spent hours considering his options and executing them.

[Lockhaven]

From the correspondence it seems he wasn't a local pilot and couldn't get the services of an engineer until two days later. It's a case of "get-home-itus" (however one spells that). I've no idea exactly what he did wrong (brakes not set, throttle set too high etc) but those of us hand-swingers have, if we are honest, had a "there but for the grace of God" moment.

However, the following accumulation of facts suggest that this guy was stupidly too casual:
1. He had allowed the battery to go flat.
2. He didn't use chocks (of any kind).
3. There were only a few minutes between his 'phone call seeking help and the incident. i.e. he didn't allow much 'cool head' time. You'd have thought, given his predicament, that he'd have spent hours considering his options and executing them.

As well as:-
1. Didn't set the brakes.
2. Didn't check the mags were off.
3. Didn't set the throttle.
4. I guess he also didn't realise that hand propping with a flat battery would result in getting airborne with a battery thats not going to charge due the lack of alternator excitement and probably end up with an electrical failure.

I realise we all can sometimes make an error of judgement, but his list of errors was long.

[neilmurg]

Is there such a thing as a hand-propping course? To demonstrate / show / learn how to do it safely without chopping your hands off. The brake/chock/mag/throttle stuff is fine. I'd just like to try in a safe environment.
I've had 1 aircraft not start, taken the train home and had an engineer sort it in the morning, a safe hand prop would have been a viable option.

[MikeB]

Is there such a thing as a hand-propping course?

I think you are doing it wrong in your Avatar Neil. You are supposed to swing the prop, not the aircraft.

[David Wood]

Is there such a thing as a hand-propping course? To demonstrate / show / learn how to do it safely without chopping your hands off.

I currently own/operate two aeroplanes equiped only with the old Armstrong Starter System, I've had previous aeroplanes similarly equiped and I've also taught a good number of pilots how to safely hand-swing an aeroplane. Hand-swinging is something to NEVER take lightly, but it is very useful to know how to do it on the rare occasions that you need it in an aeroplane more normally equiped with electrickery. So please, do get someone suitably experienced to show you. If you are near to Old Sarum then pop in and I'll teach you - no charge.

Key Points:

Always assume that the prop is live. Never hand-over-hand-it in the firing direction.
Always chock the aeroplane or otherwise prevent it from rolling forward once the engine fires. Unsupervised parking brakes are not enough.
Always know the state of the mags but, as mentioned above, always assume that they are live whatever they look like.
Always know the state of the throttle before hand-swinging.
Always hold-back the stick in a tail-dragger, or tie it back if starting alone.

Some would add the following extra 'rules' which I personally think are a little over-the-top but recognise the wisdom of and would not condemn: 1) start it with the fuel tap off - then if the engine does run away it won't run for long; and 2) never hand-start an aeroplane without someone else on the switches/throttle/brakes/stick.

The final point is that no matter how many times you've done it, or how much of a hurry you're in, or how much of a bitch the engine is being at the time, NEVER take shortcuts and never be complacent. Engines bite hard.

[segillum]

>Always assume that the prop is live.<

I despair of the number of people I see at our airfield who move their aircraft by pushing and pulling on the prop. Always assuming that the prop is live and keeping well away from it if at all possible seems to me to be basic airmanship.

Most light aircraft can be quite happily manoeuvered on the ground by pulling and pushing on some suitable part of their structure or using a towbar.

[Sooty25]

as a regular starter, although never a nose wheel, the only thing I would add to what @David Wood said is that when the pilot is in the cockpit and someone else is starting, the starter calls the shots and the pilot confirms.

for example;
Starter "MAGS ON?"
Pilot "MAGS ON"
Starter "Throttle set?"
Pilot "Throttle Set"
Starter "Ready?"
Pilot "Ready"
Then swing.

Don't break the routine or communication. Don't allow distractions.

[Dave Phillips]

Am I the only one who is impressed he managed to hand swing an SR22 GTS?

Ps. Nob.

[Miscellaneous]

Having demonstrated he lacked in brain power I thought it obvious he'd have the brawn.

[gfry]

WTF was the person in the aircraft doing? Why on earth jump out? Surely they knew enough put breaks on or surely the pilot briefed the person in the aircraft on what to do if it went tits up.

[Lefty]

Am I the only one who is impressed he managed to hand swing an SR22 GTS?

Ps. Nob.

Indeed. It is a very big engine to try to hand swing.

A few years back, a guy at Shobdon hand swung my 300HP Cherokee Six (when I suffered a failed starter motor).
I vividly recall sitting in the cockpit, wishing I hadn’t agreed to let him try hand swinging it, and just waiting to see bits of him flying in all directions. He didn’t, and the engine started on the second swing.

I’ve swung lots of low powered, low compression engines (Tiger’s Chipmunks etc), but despite having experienced it first hand, I would be just a little reluctant to try handswinging such a big engine unless it was really a total last resort.

[MichaelP]

It’s not the size of the engine, it’s the compression vs blade length (leverage).
When I flew it, John Jordan’s Stearman G AROY did not have a starter motor, so you had to hand swing the R985 radial engine, but the compressions are low and the prop is big.

Philip Meeson was always warmly greeted when he arrived at the Tiger Club in his Pitts.
Then, when it came for him to leave, there was suddenly no-one around except stupid me!
The Pitts’s engine had high compressions, and she was a b*tch to start!

Then there was the day there were plenty of prop capable people in front of the hangar while out on the grass the Beagle Terrier wouldn’t start.
The pilot opened the throttle and got out to blow it out himself.
At full throttle the Terrier tore a Turbulent apart, threw the bits at a Beta, and then chomped into the port wing of the Mew Gull sitting at the fuel pump.

though there's the 1 out of 10 who have a well oiled routine and prefer to do it themselves.

I have run across this recently at a Fly-In, I know the pilot does not particularly like me, but I still offered to swing his propeller.
As above he prefers to do it himself.

What I usually do in such a stituation is walk away, but not far, I tend to stand in front of the tailplane.
Safety is an attitude, and my attitude is not to walk away from someone doing something that may be risky, rather be in a position to prevent an accident or reduce risk.

The aeroplane owner does have his well oiled method of starting his aeroplane. So the other side of the coin is to not get in the way of this, disturb the sequence, cause him to miss a step in his procedure.

[Barcli]

Philip Meeson was always warmly greeted when he arrived at the Tiger Club in his Pitts.
Then, when it came for him to leave, there was suddenly no-one around except stupid me!
The Pitts’s engine had high compressions, and she was a b*tch to start!

Reminds me of when I volunteered to help Brian LeComber start ( hand swing) G-WILD - starter motor not fitted to save weight !