Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1636862
....Is what I hear constantly from anyone who hasn't tried it. I just won the Sports National Aerobatics Championship in an RV-8, and I'm feeling exceptionally full of myself. Now I've proved it can be competitive, it would be great to see more RVs on the competition circuit. Come on guys, come and have a go!
neilmurg, Charliesixtysix, wigglyamp and 25 others liked this
#1636873
Bloody well done you.

I fly RV aeros for my own amusement, usually on the winter days when I don't want to travel too far from home, but there's some blue that means I can get VERY high for when I botch it.

The main issue I have with the idea of a formal competition is that in the 6 I can't take an instructor, so improvement is based on trial and error, not mentoring.

The one thing I have discovered though is that when you do mess up, the aeroplane sighs and sorts itself out for you.

Rob P

For the avoidance of doubt I have had formal aeros instruction in other aircraft.
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By foxmoth
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1636892
And unfortunately the 6 & 7 are not cleared for flicks and spinning which rather restricts them for competition, but no problem in a 4 or 8 (or a 3). :thumleft:
6 & 7 are still fun to turn upside down though!
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By foxmoth
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1636903
116 kts in a 4 and 124 in an 8, that is not that low, you can do most manoeuvres at those speeds and if you need higher speeds, for example a vertical roll it just means you need to be a little more careful on the controls!
Last edited by foxmoth on Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By foxmoth
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1636907
Apologies, just back from a long haul trip so not fully awake! Those figures were MPH, corrected now, but even so you can still do most manoeuvres ok as long as you know what you are doing and don't just wang in full control deflection, in fact I would say it makes for a better aerobatic pilot as you need to be that much more aware of the aircraft limitations.
Figures for the 6 are the same as the 4 and the 7 & 8 are the same.
#1636912
Thanks for the kind words Rob!

There is an annual RV - only pseudo competition run by the BAeA (this year very successfully run by Davef77 of this parish) in which the sequence is designed around the limitations of RVs, meaning no spins so that RV-6s and RV-7s can 'compete' on equal terms with the 4s and 8s. Because it's not oficially a competition, rather it's a training event, competition insurance is not required, so the hurdles to taking part are minimal.

Although Vans does not specifically prohibit their aircraft from flicks, the LAA does, this includes the RV-8, and for the avoidance of doubt, I've never tried to flick mine. At Standard (Sports) level competition, flicks are not part of the repertoire, so this is not a handicap.

In my 8, Va(the blue line) is 120kt, (just spotted the edit in other posts about this) The yellow arc starts at 160kt. The 120kt Va speed is a limitation to fly around during competitions. Vne is 200kt, but the fastest I ever go at any point in a sequence is 170kt, and that is when a half loop/roll off the top is called for. I enter vertical figures mostly between 120kt and 150kt, depending on whether I want to gain or lose height before the next figure.

I also made it my business to talk to Vans about aeros limitations and what I should specifically avoid, and what the reserves of strength really are. They said to just fly it within it's placarded limitations and you can't go wrong, but also to beware of pulling more than three G at the same time as applying full aileron, as this is where you run the risk of the inboard aileron hinge bracket rivets working cracks into the rear spar. This is easy to fly around. I also spoke to the gentleman who did the structural anaylsis of the 8 for the LAA, and he also said to fly it within its limits and I would be fine, but also not to countenance becoming a test pilot by taking it beyond the published limits. I recommend taking the time to look deeper than just the POH when getting to know your aeroplane and where its limitations lie.

I'm largely self-taught, though I've had some great coaching from Julian Murfitt, who is a great aeros instructor. I'm not saying this route is advisable for anyone else, just that I've done it, and shown that you can still win with the 'wrong' aeroplane and stay safe. It's very hard to find any aeros instructors who have competition experience and have strong experience of RV flying, in order to show you how to do it and stay safe. The teriffic Mike & Emily Collett at Waltham are probably the best people around in this respect. That said, there is a lot of rubbish talked about energy management(i.e. it builds up too quickly) being a challenge in RV's but I've not really found it to be a problem. Our wobbly prop is probably the reason why it's not a problem.

In summary, get the knowledge sorted to know where the dragons are in the aeroplane's envelope, then go and and fly around those dragons whilst gently stretching your own envelope a little further each time. Eventually that envelope will contain a big shiny trophy and a gold medal.
Last edited by Maxthelion on Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
djpacro liked this
#1636914
I'd also like to point out that if you're worried about turing up to a aeros competition with a load of sky gods in personalised flying suits and thousand yard stares, it's not like that at all. The amount of mutual support that goes on is fantastic, and I'm honoured to have made the friends that I have on the competition circuit. Jake, Mark, Ruth, Roger, Maciej, Steve and many others have been fantastic. They are all superb pilots and deserved the top spot every bit as much as me. Their warmth, humour, and delicately delivered helpful hints were endless, and I only wish there were more opportunities to chew the cud with them all together in airfield clubhouses. The British Aerobatics Association judges and the contest director are also a great bunch of people. Chris Sills (CD) is an awesome guy and probably deserves a medal and some free therapy for making it all happen and not being driven mad by me and others with constant questions and general effing about.
I strongly urge anyone considering having a go at aerobatic competition, in whatever type, to come and spend some time in the nicest, most welcoming clique in aviation.

And you don't need to remember anyone's name, 'cos it's on their flying suit! :thumleft:
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#1636917
Maxthelion wrote:....Is what I hear constantly from anyone who hasn't tried it. I just won the Sports National Aerobatics Championship in an RV-8, and I'm feeling exceptionally full of myself. Now I've proved it can be competitive, it would be great to see more RVs on the competition circuit. Come on guys, come and have a go!


Congratulations Martin. Fabulous effort!
Maxthelion liked this
#1636918
Rob P wrote:Bloody well done you.

I fly RV aeros for my own amusement, usually on the winter days when I don't want to travel too far from home, but there's some blue that means I can get VERY high for when I botch it.

The main issue I have with the idea of a formal competition is that in the 6 I can't take an instructor, so improvement is based on trial and error, not mentoring.

The one thing I have discovered though is that when you do mess up, the aeroplane sighs and sorts itself out for you.


I am almost entirely self-taught because I am quite a big chap and usually overweight two-up.

It is still the best thing that I ever did for my flying enjoyment.

If you are safe, you can go a long way with advice from people on the ground, or even in the bar or on a forum :)
#1636919
foxmoth wrote:And unfortunately the 6 & 7 are not cleared for flicks and spinning which rather restricts them for competition, but no problem in a 4 or 8 (or a 3). :thumleft:
6 & 7 are still fun to turn upside down though!


Flicks only arrive at "Intermediate" you can always just not fly the spin, and fly everything else.

Sure, you will get a points deduction, but the principle value of competing is NOT winning. (Even though it is very nice when you do, as we can all see from the glow surrounding @Maxthelion )