[gaznav]

Today I was fortunate enough to see the new SkyEcho 2 and had a really good look at it. Sorry about the quality of the image, I thought it was better than that when I took it but should have turned on the flash!

It comes in a really nifty zip-up carry case with a space for the device and its suction cup mount. It oozed a far more robust, professional and finished product compared to the other EC devices on the market. This is a quality product that won’t end up in a clatter of bits on the cockpit floor or have wires/antennae all over the place. This is it:




It is exactly the same size and a very similar shape as the Foreflight Sentry (obviously with different features!) but the following video gives an idea of its small size, the mount used and the quality of the product.

So onto the things I found out. The same SkyEcho functionality as before - ADS-B In so you can see other ADS-B equipped aircraft and ADS-B Out so that any ADS-B receiver can see you. It also has a Mode C and Mode S detection capability built in that gives proximity only alerts (like the Surecheck, PilotAware, TrafficScope Micro, etc...). FLARM and P3i options are extra and will be either conducted by connecting your existing units or receive only via some modular units. The ability to receive weather remains as well. Another feature is to detect small drones if they are carrying the increasingly popular DroneAware - not seen in the UK yet. There are several navigation apps that support SkyEcho, but SkyDemon appears to be the leader for UK support and functionality in my humble opinion. Also, the design has potentially different mounting options for the future such as velcro attachments for paraglider lift webs or straps for vintage aircraft like Moths and other open cockpit aircraft.

I did ask about the Mode S trial, which apparently had positive results, but it is for the Authority to decide the level of success, when to announce the results and where this goes next - personally, I suspect this is all playing into the flexible use of airspace and electronic-conspicuity plans that seem to be building within the CAA. However, for now, Mode A and non-transponder users can use it without issue. Apparently, it is expected that some will be at the LAA Rally next month to look at.

A personal thanks to this Forum’s ‘Uavionix Ramsey’ for contacting me and taking the time to show me the SkyEcho2 device. I’m definitely on the waiting list

https://uavionix.com/products/skyecho/

[Dave W]

Very nice. Does it have an option to fit remote antenna(s)?

[gaznav]

Hi Dave

It had a small expansion port at the bottom but I didn’t ask that question. Maybe one for the LAA Rally?

Best, Gaz

[patowalker]

Very nice. Does it have an option to fit remote antenna(s)?

You would like one with wires/antennae all over the place?

[mlawton]

Flying recently past the gliders,they seem our biggest threats.does the echo pick up the flarm data.

[Ian Melville]

It oozed a far more robust, professional and finished product compared to the other EC devices on the market. This is a quality product that won’t end up in a clatter of bits on the cockpit floor or have wires/antennae all over the place.

Let the product sell it's self on merit, rather than having a thinly veiled dig at PilotAware.

[Dave W]

You would like one with wires/antennae all over the place?

I'd like a device with the best possible coverage to sense other traffic.

[ChrisRowland]

It oozed a far more robust, professional and finished product compared to the other EC devices on the market. This is a quality product that won’t end up in a clatter of bits on the cockpit floor or have wires/antennae all over the place.

Let the product sell it's self on merit, rather than having a thinly veiled dig at PilotAware.

One of the worst things about PAW is the way the PAW zealots see every comment about any other EC device as an attack. It puts me off PAW because I can't trust people to be straightforward about what PAW will deliver.

[gaznav]

Flying recently past the gliders,they seem our biggest threats.does the echo pick up the flarm data.

Two options at present - use a FLARM to receive the picture or await the receive only FLARM module bing developed. There is also the PilotAware receive module but I’m not sure if that will work with their rebroadcast picture of the Open Glider Network - from what I understand you need to transmit on PilotAware to get the closest FLARM returns transmitted back (which needs their ‘Bridge’ and a licence).

I suspect that in the future ADS-B will become the requirement for all aircraft flying looking at some of the CAA airspace plans. So will that make FLARM the choice for glider-glider conflict but ADS-B the standard for everyone to carry? It certainly seems to be heading that way and devices like SkyEcho with its small size, internal battery and easy mounting is ideal for glider carriage as well making them visible to ATC, the military and commercial air transport as ADS-B is constantly being fitted for these purposes.

[ChrisRowland]

What I'd like is that there was some common standard that everyone used for EC and that FLARM was an additional cost option that used this and provided additional filtering to stop warnings for other gliders really close in the same thermal and aircraft that you are formation flying with, tied together with rope.
Thermalling over Stokenchurch at 3500' and being constantly warned about the Heathrow CTR is just a distraction, but if I was flying straight it would be useful to be woken up and notified.

[gaznav]

It oozed a far more robust, professional and finished product compared to the other EC devices on the market. This is a quality product that won’t end up in a clatter of bits on the cockpit floor or have wires/antennae all over the place.

Let the product sell it's self on merit, rather than having a thinly veiled dig at PilotAware.

Ian, seeing as you raised this, I raised it thinking about LX Nav’s FLARM mobile. If you know anyone at Halton Aero Club then you would find out how many of the antennae have fallen off and how many have needed TLC after not a significant amount of use. One of the members is currently running a ‘refurb programme’ on 5 of the FLARM mobile devices.

I am a fan of what PAW have done and achieved it’s just that I personally believe they have backed the wrong horse with not having a 1090 mhz low power CAP1391 ADS-B output. I believe this was one of the things that frustrated the lead on CAP1391 and why he gave up on this forum some time back.

I’m all for winning on merit by the way. So when it comes to form and function the Uavionix products seem to merit praise over the others - FLARM, SureCheck, LX Nav or PAW. If it didn’t then I wouldn’t be saying it - both the first SkyEcho and now this one look and feel so much more robust than their competition. I don’t see why that is deemed ‘thinly veiled’? I’m being as open and transparent as I can on my personal opinion without trying to directly insult anyone on an open forum

[gaznav]

One of the worst things about PAW is the way the PAW zealots see every comment about any other EC device as an attack. It puts me off PAW because I can't trust people to be straightforward about what PAW will deliver.

I have felt the same way in the past and that feeling comes and goes. Some times I think it could be a really great idea that I am missing out on and then I think of the unsuspected Pied Piper leading all of the children away! Is the lure of its cheap price leading some away from an EC standard that we should be all converging upon?

When I weighed all of this up late last year it was the product that won through in the end. I have not regretted that decision as at least my device emits a signal that is seen by PowerFLARM and PAW plus a lot of other ADS-B receivers.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Any idea what it is likely to cost?

G

[PaulSS]

@gaznav

It certainly is a neat looking unit. Do you know exactly how PAW would connect to it?

Does the paperwork give any indication of whether the Flarm/PAW modules will be internal to the box or whether they will have to plug into it somehow (let's hope there are no external wires.....(insert diety) forbid)

As for external antennas, I too wonder about this. The antennas in the SE2 must be tiny to fit in that box. All credit to them if they work as effectively as external ones but I would be very interested to see the actual performance comparisons and an easy means of connecting to external aerials if the performance is found wanting. People might want to fit it as a permanent fixture (maybe behind the panel), instead of sucker-cupping it to a window, so wires everywhere is not a mandatory requirement for external antennas......they can be hidden very easily.

[Ian Melville]

It oozed a far more robust, professional and finished product compared to the other EC devices on the market. This is a quality product that won’t end up in a clatter of bits on the cockpit floor or have wires/antennae all over the place.

Let the product sell it's self on merit, rather than having a thinly veiled dig at PilotAware.

One of the worst things about PAW is the way the PAW zealots see every comment about any other EC device as an attack. It puts me off PAW because I can't trust people to be straightforward about what PAW will deliver.

One of the worst things about SkyEcho is the way the ADSB zealots see every comment about any other EC device as an attack. It puts me off SkyEcho because I can't trust people to be straightforward about what SkyEcho will deliver.

Over and out