[davef77]

Good stuff and a great aeroplane to start learning in. I predict it's probably going to get addictively expensive - it's a bit like crack-cocaine for some of us!

Whadaya mean, it is like Crack I can handle it <sniff>

[PaulSS]

I'll echo what Foxmoth has said, especially the fact that most people acclimatise. The secret, then, is to do them as often as you can, so the 15-20 minute lesson may well be the way ahead. It's great if you have no controlled airspace, built-up areas around your airfield because then you can just climb up and get going. Maybe Foxmoth and I were on the same 'Dog course, as one of our guys had to tootle off, get spun around the centrifuge and then a bunch of hours in a Hunter until they 'cured' him of his sickness by de-sensitising him to them. He got there in the end

I've had my fix of them today so all is well in the world again

[davef77]

If you struggle with air-sickness during aerobatics then can I suggest that you book your lesson differently (this obviously only works if you can aerobat in the overhead or very close to the 'drome): fly for a max of 15 mins then land, de-brief over a cuppa and a sandwich, then go off again and do it twice more ideally.

The "sickness" won't get a chance to take hold, the debrief will be clearer because you are talking to each other rather than hearing it through headsets, whether side by side or tandem and you'll learn more rapidly and make better progress not just on the aerobatics but on your tolerance, too.

At the start of the season, my G tolerance is generally very low, so I do 3 or 4 flights of ten/fifteen minutes slowly building it up before I start to pull/push anywhere near the limits. I make sure i can hold horizontal 4g turns in both dirctions well above 2000' long before I start looping at 200'.

Aerobatics is my obsession, I fly aeros all the time, but I still second that!

I generally try to keep flying through the winter but weather, maintenance and sometimes work, mean that this is never at the same levels as during the summer. My "G" tolerance drops significantly.

When my "G" tolerance falls, then I feel sick sooner. So I fly shorter trips.

Also, keep your hydration up! Drink LOTS.

I felt sick for about 4 days after my first aerobatic trip (many years ago) and also in a CAP 10

Tolerance does build with practice.

[davef77]

before I start looping at 200'.

Just thinking about looping at 200' is making my stomach feel funny, and that's when I'm sitting on my sofa...

Yes, but you don't start there. You do a LOT of loops (or whatever), including messy ones that go wrong, high up first and like all things, you become acclimatised.

I can clearly remember thinking that 1500' (the bottom of the competition box for Club pilots) was a bit low for flying aerobatics. Now the floor of my box is 600'

That is what the training is for getting us acclimatised, and flying within our, and the aeroplanes, operational envelope

[Maxthelion]

I too take a few sessions to build up my tolerance after the winter. I find when I'm out of practise I get tired and feel literally drained after 15 minutes of pulling to about 4G. Once I've done a few flights I'm up to 5G all day long. Our aeroplane is only good for 6G and I tend to stay 1G shy of that so as not to risk going over the limit and grounding the thing pending an inspection. I would love to get a flight in something good for 10G and see how well I handle some really big pulls though. I've been trying my best to blag a ride in some exottica to do this but so far haven't been successful.

I fly my competition aeros down to a base of 1000', or sometimes a little lower if I've made a mistake and I think the judges will notice me climbing back up (they often can't tell the difference between 1000' and 900'. When you're focussed on not busting the bottom of the box, you do look at the altimeter a lot, which is sometimes more practical than looking outside at the ground coming up. 1000' on the dial is a good deal easier to read than guaging 1000' by eye.

[davef77]

Not sure yet, how it will make me a better pilot as you don't normally fly like a hooligan in you day to day "normal" flying. Well I don't but.............

So, the short story long, I have committed to doing the rating. Who knows where that will lead to but for the moment it will keep me stimulated and challenged.

I think it makes you safer because it expands your personal envelope.

First, as you said you get to fly more dynamic, less fogiving aeroplanes. After flying a Pitts, most things are easy to land

Next you learn to fly whatever you are flying to its limits. Slower, faster, more dynamic, stalls spins the lot. I regularly fly my aeroplane slower than its stall speed and up to Vne. I pull G that used to intimidate me and perform figures that I didn’t think that I could ever do.

I am more “in-tune” with my aeroplane than I used to be and will spot a stall or incipient spin way before I would have done before. So I am safer, while probably doing some riskier things.

I found that aerobatics, and for me, in particular competition aerobatics, revolutionised my flying. It means that I have a reason, a goal, for every flight. I have targets that provide focus. Learning is continual. When you have your rating, pop along to a Club comp and give it a go

[TopCat]

It seems that the biennial revalidation training hour can be spread over several flights...

From here....

"To revalidate the rating you must complete the following.....

<other options snipped>

a training flight of at least 1 hour (or a maximum of three totalling 1 hour) with the same flight instructor or class rating instructor. If you have already completed a proficiency check or skill test in another type or class of aeroplane, you will not have to complete this training flight"

I reckon I might do some aeros next year if not before

[Shrek235]

I found that aerobatics, and for me, in particular competition aerobatics, revolutionised my flying. It means that I have a reason, a goal, for every flight. I have targets that provide focus. Learning is continual. When you have your rating, pop along to a Club comp and give it a go

Thanks for your posts. I think this sums up what I am hoping to gain from this. Not sure about the competition part yet - baby steps for me.

[1SteveTodd]

I can clearly remember thinking that 1500' (the bottom of the competition box for Club pilots) was a bit low for flying aerobatics. Now the floor of my box is 600'

Actually 656' (200m) above aerodrome level........

I still have toppled gyros after 35 years of aerobatic flying........doesn't stop the enjoyment though.

[Paul_Sengupta]

I found that aerobatics, and for me, in particular competition aerobatics, revolutionised my flying. It means that I have a reason, a goal, for every flight. I have targets that provide focus. Learning is continual.

I have enough of a challenge trying to find hot food at an aerodrome after 4pm on a weekend.

[davef77]

I can clearly remember thinking that 1500' (the bottom of the competition box for Club pilots) was a bit low for flying aerobatics. Now the floor of my box is 600'

Actually 656' (200m) above aerodrome level........

I still have toppled gyros after 35 years of aerobatic flying........doesn't stop the enjoyment though.

My altimeter is in Metres

[davef77]

I found that aerobatics, and for me, in particular competition aerobatics, revolutionised my flying. It means that I have a reason, a goal, for every flight. I have targets that provide focus. Learning is continual. When you have your rating, pop along to a Club comp and give it a go

Thanks for your posts. I think this sums up what I am hoping to gain from this. Not sure about the competition part yet - baby steps for me.

Sure, it is not for everyone. But I put off competition flying for way too long. I wish that I had found it sooner in my flying, I would have had more fun, and been a better pilot.

I assumed that competition flying was aggressive, cut-throat and only for Sky Gods. I couldn't have got it more wrong.

Whatever you choose, have fun.

[Shrek235]

Hello,

For those that showed an interest, I thought I would do a post as to where I have got to re this.

I am now just shy of the half way point for the rating. I will want to do more than the minimum before I test but it is good to have a bench mark on progress.

My aerobatic menu is: Spins, aileron rolls, stall turns, barrel rolls and slow rolls. Not too fond of the spins or the slow rolls. Spinning a CAP 10 as apposed to a Cherokee 140 (which in them days was part of the PPL) are chalk and cheese!! The slow rolls made me feel queasy so I will try leave those to the last moment before the sortie ends. Also, with the slow rolls, I found it strange to push forward on the stick to keep the nose up - very alien............but makes perfect sense................

I have only had one "oh dear" from my very patient instructor and that was when I fell out the top of a loop (I think it was the loop). Hahahahahaha I have had loads of chuckles from him. So "oh dears" are "you have screwed up big time" Chuckles are "ok but lots of room for improvement". Still trying to crack the holy grail of "Excellent" but that ain't gonna happen for a very long time.

The CAP10 as an aircraft is a delight to fly. On the ground you need to stay awake until off the runway and at a slow taxi speed, even more so with how dry and hard the runway is in this blasted heat and ...........she has tried to test my state of sleep a couple of times........................

And in between aerobatics I have reacquainted myself with the DR400 while the PA12 is in for annual. Lovely machine the Robins are and it allows me to go have some me time and enjoy the vista of the world from the right way up...........

So my flying has never been better - Interesting airfield, getting up close and personal with DAK, Spitties and the such like is heaven to me, supa instructor and supa people on the front desk.................happy days. Just need to sell the share in the C172 and all will be good. Nothing wrong with the C172 I hasten to add but Shoreham too far to travel - might revisit this if Shoreham sorts its ATC out and the IAP is re-instated. Anyone want a free share in a C172 - pm me.

[Wildcat One]

Slow roll (axial rolls) issues...

You can fly the right way up easily - so I suggest that you spend a couple of minutes each flight flying inverted until you become quite comfortable with it. I'm not advocating two uninterrupted minutes of -1g flight, rather you chunk it up and start with 5 secs a few times then increas it to 10 secs, etc.

Start some of these from a half loop to inverted then push to maintain S&L -1g. Start the others by rolling inverted. Once you are comfy (v subjective term) inverted then all you need do is apply the correct control inputs to keep the nose glued to that point in the distance.

Some find it easier to chose a cloud and drive the aeroplane towards a point on that cloud whilst rolling until you have refined the manoeuvre and muscle memory starts to assimilate what is needed.

I promise you I don't think, left stick, left foot, wings approaching 45, right foot, wings almost inverted, fwd stick, etc. I just do what's needed!

Keep it up!

[davef77]

Slow roll (axial rolls) issues...

You can fly the right way up easily - so I suggest that you spend a couple of minutes each flight flying inverted until you become quite comfortable with it. I'm not advocating two uninterrupted minutes of -1g flight, rather you chunk it up and start with 5 secs a few times then increas it to 10 secs, etc.

Start some of these from a half loop to inverted then push to maintain S&L -1g. Start the others by rolling inverted. Once you are comfy (v subjective term) inverted then all you need do is apply the correct control inputs to keep the nose glued to that point in the distance.

Some find it easier to chose a cloud and drive the aeroplane towards a point on that cloud whilst rolling until you have refined the manoeuvre and muscle memory starts to assimilate what is needed.

I promise you I don't think, left stick, left foot, wings approaching 45, right foot, wings almost inverted, fwd stick, etc. I just do what's needed!

Keep it up!

Good advice!

A good way to practice slow rolls is to stop at inverted. It stops you rushing, gets you used to being upside down as @Wildcat One says, and it lets you think about what comes next.

When learning, most people screw-up the second half of a slow-roll more than the first. So pausing to make sure that you are in good position allows you to correct any small mistakes from the first half before starting the slightly harder second half.