Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1625863
As a newly qualified PPL(A) (<2 months) with 15hrs post-licence PIC and 10 different post-licence airfields visited (I've been exploring), I find the most common area of challenge for me for unfamiliar airfields is circuit patterns. They are either not available or hard to find ahead of time, being unpublished or squirrelled away in a website somewhere. This is surprising given noise abatement concerns, and surely it would be in the best interest of GA's community relations to do better here.

Why aren't circuit patterns a mandatory part of the AIP for licensed airfields, and could they be?
And until then, any thoughts on how to improve airmanship here?
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By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1625869
MSGr wrote:Why aren't circuit patterns a mandatory part of the AIP for licensed airfields, and could they be?


Its not only you as a new PPL - I have absolutely no idea why the circuit pattern is not drawn on the airfield diagram in the AIP, This is an example of the french VAC:

https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/dvd/eAIP_19_JUL_2018/Atlas-VAC/PDF_AIPparSSection/VAC/AD/AD-2.LFDP.pdf

Or for a more standard circuit they look like this:

https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/dvd/eAIP_19_JUL_2018/Atlas-VAC/PDF_AIPparSSection/VAC/AD/AD-2.LFDU.pdf

Note how the AC & Microlight circuits are different, but very clear. When I leave France I find myself drawing arrows on the Airfield Plates of countries where they dont do so as I find it much clearer.

Regards, SD..
By MarkOlding
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1625880
MSGr - I know where you are coming from !
Where the airfield's website has them available, I download them and have a file full for future reference. If there is nothing I tend to draw my own using any information available.
Having been used to doing o/head joins, if nothing is written on the website I will call up the airfield and talk it through with them.
I guess its all part of the rich tapestry that is GA in the UK. Happy flying !
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1625891
(Acknowledging that the question was "Why doesn't the AIP...?", not "Where can I get...?")

Well known digital planning software provides this info too.

Image
It would be good if the AIP did definitively contain the info graphically, I agree.
#1625892
As a SkyDemon user, and a holder of a spiral bound Pooley's Flight Guide, I agree they do have some circuit patterns, but coverage is thin and sporadic (for example, your image shows nothing for Henstridge, but you can find it here https://henstridgeairfield.com/forpilots, as I did before I went there the other week): . I'm also aware of the rough 45 degree rule (turn from downwind to base when the landing end of the runway is 45 degrees behind you).

Question for the reader. When flying into Coventry on an extended base leg join for 23, what is your reference point for base to final turn?
Answer: once you do land, look for the 20 year old (if not more) paper copy of the circuit pattern stuck up on a noticeboard.
Last edited by MSGr on Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1625894
I'd be more interested in where the noise sensitive areas are, and the wind of the day, rather than simply following an arbitrary track on the ground.

The stronger the wind the earlier I'll turn in, noise sensitivities and other circuit traffic permitting. The downwind leg will be closer in if no avoid areas, too.
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By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1625899
The UK needs to publish more Visual Approach Charts in the AIP for greater clarity / standardisation in my opinion.

Diagrams speak 1000 words and should hopefully avoid or significantly shorten the many telephone PPR briefings advising pilots to remain clear of x y z village and/or referral to self-drawn diagrams, etc.

VACs are the standard used in many countries abroad.
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By flybymike
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1625902
I’m rather wary of the suggestion that each airfield should have the right to its own individually designed circuit published in the AIP. A standard circuit is a standard circuit and if we are all going to be at liberty to design circuits to avoid every tin pot village and nimby landowner who chose to live adjacent to a long established airfield then it simply furthers the demise of GA by acquiescence.
By all means try to ameliorate noise to those on the ground where reasonably possible, but one of my pet hates is flying into a busy fly in at an unfamiliar airfield whilst at the same time trying to avoid a plethora of noise sensitive areas while trying to find the actual airfield, keep a lookout for other traffic, position the aircraft into the circuit, not to mention actually managing to fly the thing. I recall one fly in which showed a circuit diagram including a dozen or so avoidance areas.
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#1625906
Question for the reader. When flying into Coventry on an extended base leg join for 23, what is your reference point for base to final turn?


My general answer "A point on the extended centre line where I can complete the base-to-final turn by about 500 feet AGL and then make a stabilised approach to the runway*" unless terrain / obstacles / other circuit traffic / noise abatement / local procedures etc. dictate otherwise.

*taking into consideration aircraft performance, wind etc.

Coventry's AIP entry EGBE AD 2.20 and EGBE AD 2.21 also contains the following:

Circuits will normally be orientated to the south of the aerodrome, ie. Right hand circuit Runway 05, Left hand circuit Runway 23.

In particular, aircraft operators should avoid overflight of the noise sensitive areas of Binley Woods and Ryton-on-Dunsmore (05 departures, 23 arrivals)


Whilst I completely understand that it helps to have a ground reference point at which to make turns in the circuit, I was taught (and subsequently taught others) to try to judge their position with respect to the runway threshold.

This is particularly relevant for places like Bembridge, if I can paraphrase your question:

Question for the reader. When flying into Bembridge on an extended base leg join for 30, what is your reference point for base to final turn?
:D

Notwithstanding all of the above, I think that publishing circuit patterns / VAC in the AIP would be an excellent idea. :thumright:
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By Tim Dawson
SkyDemon developer
#1625921
Unlike Germany for example, here in the UK we generally do NOT have an absolute prescribed circuit pattern; a precise geometry that one must follow in order not to get told off. Indeed the circuit flown will depend on aircraft performance, wind, other factors.

The exception tends to be where noise abatement concerns have led the airfield to really want to define such a precise circuit. But that is an exception in this country, not the rule.

In SkyDemon you can see rough curved arrows where we are indicating which side of the runway the circuit is on, but not prescribing an exact path. Henstridge is a good example. We will then tell you the circuit height in the airfield info.
#1625927
I flew into this airfield recently.

"Circuits at 500ft. aal LH on 23 RH on 05. During range hours as directed by Donna Nook.
Avoid overflying the village of North Cotes and the housing estate on NW side of the airfield".

Can't say I felt the need for a drawing. Turning base at 500' and final at 250' with other traffic about, I wouldn't want to be looking at one.

What's this AIP anyway? Should I have it? What am I missing?
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By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1625935
What's this AIP anyway?


You’re joking right? :wink:
#1625944
Interesting discussion.

There seems to be a debate (!) on whether it's necessary or not to define and publish circuit patterns, and myself being a pilot and not an airfield owner, I don't know the specific reasons why airfields choose -- when seemingly they have no obligation -- to define and publish a pattern. It's obviously not necessary for all airfields to do so -- nor does it seem sensible to change this --, but in the cases they do, I can only assume they have good safety, operational and community reasons to have chosen to expend their time, effort and cost to clarify their flight procedures, and thus I can only assume that it's in my best interests as a pilot, in the spirit of good airmanship, to do the best I can to respect and follow the guidance they put forward, without assuming I know better than them, or that I can make up my own pattern around their minefield of noise abatement hotspots, or that fundamentally I just have the right to do as I please and trundle in my own way. So the practical reality is that in my limited experience so far of planning and visiting 10-15 airfields, the vast majority of them give guidance on their patterns, but they all do it in their own ad hoc and inconsistent ways. I like the idea of Pooley's Guide, SkyDemon and the AIP, but Henstridge is a good example of how none of these have captured the circuit procedures the airfield deemes of sufficient worth to publish on its own website.