[Dave Phillips]

Can we re-open the Tower and send the B Johnsons of the world there? Having been reminded of past generations by the recent passing of Lord Carrington, I'm left wondering what has changed such that our elected leaders seem to have little/no appetite for serving the Country ahead of their own, personal agenda.

Perhaps there is some mileage in allowing successful business leaders to have greater influence.

[johnm]

Can we re-open the Tower and send the B Johnsons of the world there? Having been reminded of past generations by the recent passing of Lord Carrington, I'm left wondering what has changed such that our elected leaders seem to have little/no appetite for serving the Country ahead of their own, personal agenda.

Perhaps there is some mileage in allowing successful business leaders to have greater influence.

We made a big mistake giving them a salary, it's just a lucrative career now, there's no sense of public service whatever in many of the top dogs, those with a sense of public service are ridiculed and bypassed

[Flyin'Dutch']

Perhaps there is some mileage in allowing successful business leaders to have greater influence.

You mean like the current experiment they are conducting in the US?

No, thank you.

I prefer irritating and incompetent over irritating, incompetent, abrasive, treasonous and destructive.

[Dave Phillips]

Oh no I don't want a Mini-Trump, I just want accountability. If 'accountability' is flouncing and shifting back a couple of benches when you don't get your own way then there's something wrong, bigly.

[Bob Upanddown]

With today's news that the government is planning to stockpile food, I would think that "who can fly what where" questions are going to end up a fair way down the hierarchy of needs.

If true, then surely time to call a halt to all this Brexit nonsense and re-assess. Aviation will be last thing on my mind if the cupboards are empty and they turn off the power and water and gas! (must remember to leave aircraft fuelled for a trip to France as a last resort before the collapse of the UK Government and Dave's anarchy brigade take over ).

Some not-so-bright paraleagal probably cooked up this process for a county to leave the EU and now, as the CAA love to impose on us, there is a process we must follow even though it doesn't make sense and it is all the fault of Europe!

Of course, this is all Dave Cameron's fault. He let the people decide. Maybe we should have a referendum on Nuking North Korea? Would anyone in their right mind do that even if the result was 51% of votes in favour? No. I think now is the time to ask the people again and Mrs May should have the courage to do that because the current path leads to chaos.

[G-JWTP]

Just a thought,

What happens if we do have another referendum and the result is the same?

Does that mean we have to have a 'Hard Brexit' ? or carry on the same fudged path as now?

It could be a case of be careful what you wish for!

G-JWTP

[Dusty_B]

Yup.
Because then you’d be voting for what you want, rather than what you don’t want.
The last referendum asked “do you want to leave.?”. It didn’t ask “is this where you want to go?”.

My analogy is that we are all in a nightclub. It’s gone midnight, and a vote is taken to leave because various people in the group don’t like various things about this particular club. Despite protestations of the more sober elements, the majority win the vote, so we walk out. It’s pissing down with rain, and all the other establishments in town have either closed their doors, have long queues, or are charging a fortune to get in. Everyone else is laughing at us while we squabble in the gutter about WTF we're actually going to do now.

[UpThere]

What happens if we do have another referendum and the result is the same?

If there was any risk of that happening, Brexiters wouldn't be so averse to having one. The biggest reason people didn't vote in the last election was that they weren't bothered about being in the EU, so couldn't be bothered to vote for something they already had. Only if the consequences of their inaction haven't struck home yet would the result be the same.

[Irv Lee]

@GolfHotel
yes, but there is a process for swapping States and transferring everything, called SOLI (state of licence issue)

Thanks Irv. So can I transfer my EASA one and keep my CAA one here?

Just mulling over thoughts.

Yes i would imagine so, someone else might be abke to tell you what conditions the other easa states want fir a transfer.

[mo0g]

Yup.
Because then you’d be voting for what you want, rather than what you don’t want.
The last referendum asked “do you want to leave.?”. It didn’t ask “is this where you want to go?”.

My analogy is that we are all in a nightclub. It’s gone midnight, and a vote is taken to leave because various people in the group don’t like various things about this particular club. Despite protestations of the more sober elements, the majority win the vote, so we walk out. It’s pissing down with rain, and all the other establishments in town have either closed their doors, have long queues, or are charging a fortune to get in. Everyone else is laughing at us while we squabble in the gutter about WTF we're actually going to do now.

..then a stretch limo pulls up, full of scantily clad women (or men if thats your thing) and offers you a lift to their house party. You have the time of your lives, leaving the others in their tired, hot and sweaty club which might well burn down any minute any way.

Phew, that was a close shave!

Ultimately the people decided to opt for an uncertain future away from the EU, with varying degrees of hope, rather than remain in an organisation demonstrably in it for their own political careers, wishing to ensure a long term partner "cannot be better off outside the EU".

And to think we joined a trade bloc originally...

[johnm]

Many people who voted out did not vote for anything. They voted against the EU, the conversations around Twitter, the pub and Facebook lead to the inescapable conclusion that the hard liners are still of that frame of mind.

They have nothing positive to offer that stands a moments scrutiny and in many cases their aversion to the EU is based on ignorance or misunderstanding of the EU and the UK's place in it.

How we get a coherent and rational plan to get out of this mess is frankly beyond me.... We may have to live through a catastrophe and then try to repair it.

Even where the answer is relatively simple and obvious, like aviation, we seem incapable of ticking it off the list and moving on.....

[G-BLEW]

Come on peeps, let's stick to Aviation in this thread

Thanks

Ian

[johnm]

For aviation the obvious answer is join up with the Swiss and seek to develop an EASA membership with a specific Anglo-Swiss/EU arbitration and conflict resolution body that could also be available to other EASA states which aren't in the EU.

There are benefits across the piece from this approach...it would allow the ECJ to create case law in dealing internal EU issues which the arbitration body would have to take account of but decisions affecting non-EU states within EASA would formally be taken by a different body, which would seek guidance from the ECJ as it saw fit.

It's the triumph of form over substance but so is most of modern politics so if it works who cares??

[Bob Upanddown]

The same might apply to the USA. Would it not be better to join up with the USA and impliment FARs.
Do the Swiss have any say in EASA?

[UpThere]

The same might apply to the USA. Would it not be better to join up with the USA and impliment FARs.
Do the Swiss have any say in EASA?

As we wouldn't have any say in the FAA, where's the advantage?