[flybymike]

Block to block for pilot logbook and airborne time for aircraft logbooks.
Daily flight sheet has to show both.

Ditto.

[flybymike]

[b]AMC1 FCL.050 Recording of Flight Time
Flight time is recorded:
(1) for aeroplanes, touring motor gliders and powered-lift aircraft, from the moment an aircraft first moves to taking off until the moment it finally comes to rest at the end of the flight;

What is the meaning of “flight time” in this context?
Pilot logbook?
Airframe?
Engine?

The aeroplane ain’t flying when it’s taxiing.

If you taxi out to the holding point for the purposes of flight, then find a problem and return to the Apron, what is entered where?

[RisePilot]

Pilot Logbook.

It doesn't matter what either you or I think; it only matters what the EASA (or FAA) regulations stipulate. Otherwise why even waste your effort in typing out the query; put whatever you wish in your logbook.

[GrahamB]

What is the meaning of “flight time” in this context?
Pilot logbook?
Airframe?
Engine?

I think the fact that the extract is from Part FCL might be a bit of a teensy-weensy clue.

[Dominie]

If you taxi out to the holding point for the purposes of flight, then find a problem and return to the Apron, what is entered where?

Then you haven't flown and so you don't make an entry in your logbook.

[LUFTY]

Interestingly I am sure the rule used to say "with the intention" which would mean that the time would still count.

Recording engine time depends on the manufacturer defined logging requirements for instance Rotax defines that you should log engine start to engine stop time.

[flyguy]

and even stopwatches used.

I've seen an instructor use the stopwatch on one of the nav boxes. Which works fine until the student decides to use that timer for something else

If my studes dare touch MY DME timer they automatically fail the trip

[defcribed]

Brakes off to brakes on for my logbook.

Tacho for group billing.

Tacho less 0.2 (0.1 taxi allowance either side of the flight) for the cumulative flight time in the tech log which is used to determine when it goes for the next 50 hour check.

[flybymike]

Interestingly I am sure the rule used to say "with the intention" which would mean that the time would still count.

It did indeed, which is why I asked the question.

[TopCat]

Interestingly I am sure the rule used to say "with the intention" which would mean that the time would still count.

It did indeed, which is why I asked the question.

Guess that's why they had a go at rephrasing it. Still terribly clunky.

"from the moment an aircraft first moves to taking off"

They really couldn't have written it a bit more clearly?

What would be wrong with "... first starts to taxy at the beginning of a flight"? Or any one of many variations on that theme. Hell, they could even add a sentence to the effect that "no flight time shall be logged where a flight does not take place" and make it completely idiot-proof.

[Nick]

When going flying. Brakes off to brakes on. This goes in my personal flying logbook.

If only taxiing this time would go in airframe and engine logbook with an explanation that it was taxi runs only.

Any other time the engine is started and run that time is entered in the engine logbook with an explanation. ie maintenance etc.

Simples!

Nick

[Lockhaven]

If only taxiing this time would go in airframe and engine logbook with an explanation that it was taxi runs only.

Any other time the engine is started and run that time is entered in the engine logbook with an explanation. ie maintenance etc.

Why use up valuable engine hours by putting taxi runs and other ground based engine operations in the logbook

Engine hours only go in a logbook after a defined engine cycle.

A cycle is normally defined as when the engine reached take-off power, but varies depending upon the manufacture.

[Ebbie 2003]

Interesting.

I tended to start and be taxying a minute after the start, do then "lose" a further 2/3 minutes on the run up after the relatively long taxy.

So given the 0.1 minute increments of the Hobbs is likely accurate (my Hobbs run when there is pressure in the crankcase), I do spend quite some time in taxying but seems legit. The runway here is 10,000ft+ and I do like to land of on the aim point by the numbers, so I have a long taxy at the end too. If asked the "experdite" I do land long as on Saturday with a 747 on a short final, short approach and experdited exit landing 5,000ft d8wn the runway.

For maintenance I do use the tach with no deductions. We keep the on/off just in case things get close to the limits, say a 100hr due but the annual next month, we can then creep on to the annual.

I do agree it was very odd the guy who had recorded his on/off times during training (it would have been decades before EASA and the published rules), but it means his log shows him to be a low hours to PPL sky god, but he then switched to Hobbs once he had his licence.

Now I am above the 250, other than for giving to my insurance company and filling (I could get these from the airplane techlog) in on the medical form I dont see a benefit in filling out logs, but need it for my flight review sign off and record of training/endorsements/approvals to fly into dodgy airports.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Now I am above the 250, other than for giving to my insurance company and filling (I could get these from the airplane techlog) in on the medical form I dont see a benefit in filling out logs, but need it for my flight review sign off and record of training/endorsements/approvals to fly into dodgy airports.

Who knows, at some point you may need to prove that you have 1000hrs on category to become a test pilot, 1000hrs on engine class to meet insurance requirements for an unusual aeroplane, 400hrs IFR to become an Instrument Rating Instructor, or simply check what you were flying and when, when 2 months after the flight somebody accuses you of infringing controlled airspace on a flight you've forgotten any details about.

(All of which I've had to think about myself at some point.)

G

[Trent772]

All decimal - we keep a small reporters notebook in the glovebox.

Date - Pilot - Tacho start - Tacho stop - Elapsed

Once every 3 months, I photograph the pages and send it to the partners.

Flying logbook Tacho

A/C Logbook Tacho minus 10%

Easy - doesn't make my brain hurt