Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By MichaelP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1619606
cockney steve wrote:@ MichaelP said
not a tea bag in a mug of hot water! Scolded pot, heated cups,


Ah! so that's how you quell arguments in the brew-room. :D
(just stirring the pot. :wink: )


There’s more to this than the obvious.

Instructors teach through their own actions too.
Students catch on to the fact that you do everything precisely and correctly.

The new CFI makes the tea at the school now. Standards have dropped in this. If I visit I bring milk, if I remember. Teapots have been busted, I replaced them. I have supplied a new teapot even though I don’t work there.

Likewise, pitot covers go missing, I replaced them.
The aeroplanes were tied down properly with snug ropes, to prevent snatching in the wind. Control locks in place.
Ongoing never ending teaching of the same desirable things.

Considerable money can be saved if the CFI does the job well and brings all the instructors into line with doing things properly.
If there is one person who you should pay well it is a good Chief Flying Instructor.

The current CFI asked me “does it really make a difference the way you make tea?”
I made a fresh pot, and yes it does.

If you have the ability to make a good pot of tea perhaps you have the ability to make a good student into a good pilot.

In the beginning I worked at Pro.
The boss thought I was a bit weird, should they employ me at all?
But I brought in the students; my reputation did this.

You do what you do, I worked in the aircraft industry, BAC/BAe, did everything I could to have a proper job and a proper income, but I failed, and became a flying instructor, something I have done the whole of my sensible life.

The aviation we do is a way of life. It’s poverty of income, but we do it anyway.
A difference between England and Canada is that though it’s more expensive in Britain, we do it anyway.
I took home £21.50 a week and paid £11.64 per hour dual to learn at Exeter Flying Club... It had to be done.

In Canada nearly all the students are on mum and dads’ money. They can only justify learning to fly as part of their airline career aspirations.
You don’t see kids bicycling to the airfield to look at aeroplanes as I did. The roads are more dangerous these days, and there are other attractions.

Flights are being cancelled in Canada. Not enough pilots. If it is to be believed above, Ryanair are paying their pilots very well compared to Canadian operators.
The paucity of income following the expense of training has made piloting aircraft an unattractive proposition.
Asked by a student whether to be a CPL or a Dr, I told him “Doctors own aeroplanes”. He became a doctor, and flew an Extra 300.
Stu B, kanga liked this
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By kanga
#1619706
MichaelP wrote:..
You don’t see kids bicycling to the airfield to look at aeroplanes as I did. The roads are more dangerous these days, and there are other attractions.

...


I used to bicycle to the Ottawa FC to fly in '80s (in my 30s); but not in midwinter :) . I caused some amusement when on my first visit I asked where the bike rack was; but many buildings in Ottawa have them, especially downtown, and the roads are bike-friendly (plenty of well-surfaced bike paths and lanes). I also commuted by bike (but 'bus - also excellent there - in midwinter).
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1619707
kanga wrote:I used to bicycle to the Ottawa FC to fly in '80s (in my 30s); but not in midwinter :)


Of course not. In midwinter you'd skate there along the Rideau canal :D

I loved seeing booted and suited businessmen skating to work when I was there on trials.
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By kanga
#1619713
Dave W wrote:
kanga wrote:I used to bicycle to the Ottawa FC to fly in '80s (in my 30s); but not in midwinter :)


Of course not. In midwinter you'd skate there along the Rideau canal :D

I loved seeing booted and suited businessmen skating to work when I was there on trials.


Canal did not go to the airport (although Rideau river not far away: someone kept a floatplane on it within the ATZ :) Being Canada, this did not bother ATCOs at all :thumright: )

But Canal did go past my DND/MDN office, and several of my colleagues did skate to work. We all kept 'indoor' shoes at the office in winter.
Dave W liked this
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1619743
Lockhaven wrote:I think you need to check your figures, for a start pay is in Euros. Even Captains are only earning Euros 10500 per month before tax.


Even 55k Euros is a pretty damn good salary! It's more than I earn after 25 years as a "highly paid" telecomms engineer, let alone a starting salary.

*Only* 10500 Euros a month?! Sarcasm, right? :D

jaycee58 wrote:However, as ICAO Annex 1 requires flight instructors to have theoretical knowledge for a commercial pilot licence ‘appropriate to the aircraft category’,"

There appears to be a bit missing off the last sentence.


I think the "as" is superfluous.

I refer the honourable regulator to my post here:

https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1581870#p1581870
User avatar
By Lockhaven
#1619746
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
Lockhaven wrote:I think you need to check your figures, for a start pay is in Euros. Even Captains are only earning Euros 10500 per month before tax.


Even 55k Euros is a pretty damn good salary! It's more than I earn after 25 years as a "highly paid" telecomms engineer, let alone a starting salary.

*Only* 10500 Euros a month?! Sarcasm, right? :D


No sarcasm, get the right job for a good company, not a low cost operator and as captain you will earn more than that per month after tax. :)




edit spelling
Last edited by Lockhaven on Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Flintstone
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1619747
To take this a stage further.

There has been a real pilot shortage (not the imaginary one punted by flying schools) in some parts of the world for a while now. In the US the airlines are hoovering up newly trained pilots as they leave the flying schools and other operators such as those in GA are losing experienced crew hand over fist.

This year’s salary survey revealed that in order to retain experienced captains ‘pure’ corporate operators such as the big corporations, NFL etc are paying salaries as high as $260,000. :shock:

I have a FAA licence tucked away somewhere, just no Green Card. :roll:
User avatar
By Lockhaven
#1619750
Flintstone wrote:To take this a stage further.

There has been a real pilot shortage (not the imaginary one punted by flying schools) in some parts of the world for a while now. In the US the airlines are hoovering up newly trained pilots as they leave the flying schools and other operators such as those in GA are losing experienced crew hand over fist.

This year’s salary survey revealed that in order to retain experienced captains ‘pure’ corporate operators such as the big corporations, NFL etc are paying salaries as high as $260,000. :shock:

I have a FAA licence tucked away somewhere, just no Green Card. :roll:


Not quite as high as that in Europe yet, but for the right bizjet operator and if you have the right experience they are getting close to the $190,000 using an EASA licence :thumright:
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