[G-JWTP]

Didn't bother this year.

The ' fly in, pay up front' bit put me off.

I'll be at the LAA rally instead where I generally run into old friends and you can buy the stuff you need.

G-JWTP.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I agree with Michael, it's useful technology, but it takes discipline for it not to become your sole focus at the expense of general lookout. Once you have a way of using it worked out where it augments your lookout rather than replaces it then it's a terriffic asset.

Most of our cockpits are full of stuff that we can fixate on - GPS, DI, ASI, paper charts, PLOGs, you name it. I don't buy that anybody well enough trained not to fixate on any of those things, can't equally just incorporate a traffic display into their scan.

Equally, somebody without good discipline, is being given another item to fixate upon.

This really is a training and best practice issue, not an issue of the generically good, or bad, characteristics of having a traffic display.

G

[mmcp42]

I fear we are turning into the CAA of many years ago
- "GPS is the spawn of the devil"
- "ADF and stopwatch is all you need"

I find SD and PAW (other solutions are available) mean I can stop faffing about and spend more time looking out

HTH YMMV

[Maxthelion]

Just to clarify; the difference between a traffic warning system and other gizmos in the cockpit, is you run the risk of fixating on looking for the contacts it's warned you about at the expense of the ones you haven't. This isn't quite the same thing as fixating on a GPS. If you focus on a GPS you might forget to do a lot of things, but you almost certainly won't get lost. If you fixate on contacts presented to you by your traffic warning system then you might not notice the Globe Swift with it's transponder turned off heading for you on a constant relative bearing, and you may well have a collision.
The GPS fixation still allows that device to acheive it's prime function. The TCAS fixation, actually degrades that device's prime function, that of enabling you to prevent a collision.

[GAFlyer4Fun]

.

This is a classic example of route selection taught to all PPLs so the chances are many PPLs would chose that routing going through a choke point between Middle Wallop and the Solent CAS enroute to Compton Abbas.
The route selected is the easiest route for a PPL, and also likely for the return journey.

It is exacerbated by the availability/use of pre-defined waypoints in the nav kit reducing variety of routes.
e.g. On the extract of that chart there are not many named places that a PPL would use as waypoints that would make sense in a chat with enroute ATSU. (I have heard mil heli pilots give positions relative to the nearest village, but it is not named on the UK charts so not that helpful to non-local pilots and the Swanwick guy did not know where it was either).

So, in uncontrolled airspace this sort of route selection theoretically increases the chance of collision, particularly if it is very hazy or there is a low sun etc.

Knowing this, the collision risk can be reduced by treating the magenta line as a line feature and keeping the line feature on the left by an offset distance.

Some panel mount nav kit allows pilot selection of such an offset to make it easy (might need to read the manual to know if the kit supports it and how to use it).

In general collision risk can also be reduced by flying less obvious routes, perhaps using the odd personal waypoint rather than the predefined waypoints from a published database. It might add a few minutes to a flight.... but that lateral separation can be very useful.

[Flyin'Dutch']

I thought this thread was about Aero Expo?

[Marvin]

I thought this thread was about Aero Expo?

There was a presentation at AeroExpo on EC as well as infringements by the CA both of which provoked conversations in the presentation with the CAA.

Both subjects are creeping into all the presentations, Safety Day, AeroExpo, I guess it will also appear those at the LAA - we don’t seem to able to escape the consistent focus on these issues.

Beginning to turn people off the subject is the danger, both EC and Infingements, and the CAA seem to be trying to address their particular response from the presentations they did.

[GAFlyer4Fun]

I thought I was commenting on Marvin's route from Aero Expo to Compton Abbas...
... and the use of tech in the cockpit as some will be using panel mount kit for VFR nav, and some of the kit might have been on display at AeroExpo.

[MichaelP]

I thought this thread was about Aero Expo?

My apologies for contributing to this diversion from the original track of this subject.

There was a plethora of electronic gizmos at the show.
I have seen cockpits festooned with iPads and all forms of tablets. Three or more GPSs all needing some interaction at times.

On Friday evening I had the pleasure of flying a Condor with no screens, no GPS, just a comm on the common frequency, 7000 on the transponder, map, and a view of the fields and reservoirs, churches, and villages northeast of Birmingham.
It was delightful and fun flying an Ace Machine.

What is wrong with this sort of flying?

Thousands of hours were flown in all the years I flew from Redhill, but there was one midair collision between a Tiger Moth and a Warrior.
Maybe a collision avoidance system would have prevented the deaths of four people, maybe not.

But those years of no radio, of looking out, were pleasurable, and safe for me!

I lost a T67A which had an uncontrolled collision with the ground, joie de vivre en vol gone wrong. Technology would not have saved them.

So here were are in an age where technology might have us cocooned in our cockpits, losing the ability to enjoy the wonder of flight.

What will we lose to the phobia of the midair collision?

How many of us might have a collision on the road as we drive to the airfield.

I think we need to consider why we fly, what diversions we need, and what we don’t.
We need to consider the risks, and reduce them as much as is possible. But not at the expense of the enjoyment of what we do.
We can devolve it to the captain of the aluminium tube we take instead of flying ourselves.

Was I worried about having no technology in the Condor?
No, not at all.

[ls8pilot]

On the main topic, I thought Aero Expo was disappointing this year. I saw the CAA pitch on Electronic Conspicuity which was useful (glad to see they are starting an initiative on ATC use of EC, albeit not till 1Q2019). Had a good chat with the SkyEcho folks - they have some really good devices which look quite promising (some issues with integration with the kind of kit we have in gliders - but hopefully will be resolved in time). Shame we cant use the drone stuff - their micro transponder looked a great bit of kit!

Also caught up with a few other bits of new stuff. However overall less exhibitors than last year, relatively few LAA type aircraft on show (lots of expensive helicopters - not sure really appropriate for the average attendee), no gyrocopters at all.

By Saturday afternoon some of the exhibitors had started to pack up and go home early.

It was expensive at £17 (advance ticket), if I had paid the £22 on the gate I suspect I might have been quite unhappy.

Will not bother next year.

[Flintstone]

But aren't these events usually the sort of thing best visted every couple of years or so?

With innovations coming along at the pace they do there can hardly be a whole show or expo full of shiny new gew-gaws and whirlygigs and shiny things. Unless someone is hunting for bargains or happy to browse a bit of the same stuff from last year I'd say expecting to be amazed and enthralled year on year is asking a bit much.

And I'm easily pleased.

[gaznav]

On Friday evening I had the pleasure of flying a Condor with no screens, no GPS, just a comm on the common frequency, 7000 on the transponder, map, and a view of the fields and reservoirs, churches, and villages northeast of Birmingham.
It was delightful and fun flying an Ace Machine.

Me too Michael, part of a team flying 124 school children in around a 4.5hr period, probably at the same time as you as well but in a different Condor. However, the SkyEcho I have and the iPhone running SkyDemon is all I have extra (no transponder, but I am pushing out ADS-B!).



The SkyEcho is sitting behind me over my right shoulder and Garfield is helping with the look out!

So what for AeroExpo? Well I understand that the authorities are starting to get significantly behind ADS-B Out as the solution and by the sound of Balliol’s report the SkyEcho 2 is the device to own for the future. It was also useful for me to see some of the ADS-B traffic at range transiting towards where I was flying with the kids whilst they were en route to AeroExpo. It’s just a shame that not all weren’t pushing out ADS-B. I was also getting the live weather whilst flying in the Vale of Aylesbury.

Best

Gaz

[Ian Melville]

Gaz in his best British summer togs

[Maxthelion]

Gaznaz, is it just me, or have you and Garfield had a falling out?

[GolfHotel]

What is wrong with this sort of flying?

...

If you ask that question I can’t see much chance of the reply going down well.

I would ask who said there was something “wrong with this sort of flying”?