Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1613143
My 15 year old son is 12 flying hours into his PPL and as he is so young he has plenty of hour building time until he reaches 17 years of age, he is hoping to progress to CPL after that. So say he does 80 hours in total before he reaches 17 years of age does that mean he only has 120 hours left to do after his PPL, or is it always 150 hours after PPL?
#1613150
The current guidance if doing a modular CPL is this:
CPL(A) modular experience requirements which must be met before the CPL skills test

You must have at least 200 hours of flight time before conducting the skills test.

This must include the following:


Pilot in Command (PIC)
100 hours as PIC, of which 20 hours of cross-country flight as PIC, which shall include a VFR cross-country flight of at least 540km (300 NM), in the course of which full stop landings at two aerodromes different from the aerodrome of departure must be made.
#1613172
I would seek out someone at the CAA to confirm in writing that there are no hidden 'gotchas'. It would be rotten to find out that although he can log the time as P1 prior to license issue, it somehow doesn't count toward the hours required for the CPL.
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By MichaelP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1613271
I understand that there are 20 cross country hours required, including a 300 NM long cross country, to consider.

In the UK are there a number of hours (P1) required ‘perfecting one’s abilities’ during CPL training?

But whether it counts or not, experience is experience and it will all count when the candidate is job hunting.

Dual hours may be a problem as in another place twenty hours of instrument flying training is required for the CPL. These are in addition to the instrument hours logged prior to the PPL. The UK-EASA requirement may differ.

I can see after a quick search that information on the training requirement is not easy to find.
I’ve just been lost on the CAA site, and the ‘Exeter’ site does not explain what is done in the 25 hour course at all.

Is there a page on the CAA site that spells out what a CPL course should consist of?

In Canada it’s easy, you can look it all up in the CARS which specify what training and experience is required.
In a CPL course twenty additional hours of dual instrument flying is required for the CPL. This means at least 25 hours logged on instruments as there are a minimum five hours for the PPL.
Is there no ‘instrument’ requirement for an EASA CPL?
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1613324
As I understand it, a CPL candidate needs a minimum of 100 PIC hours.

It would be a very unusual situation for a candidate to present for the CPL immediately upon issue of his PPL.

Such a candidate’s logbook would most likely show something like:
Dual (PUT) : ~ 30 hrs
Solo ~ 80 hrs.
However in my opinion these would all be “PUT” as until he has his licence physically in his hand, he can still only fly solo under the direct supervision of (and technically “on the licence of”) his supervising / authorising instructor.

I struggle to see how anybody, especially a CPL training school or a potential employer, could consider that the candidate had 100 hrs of “TRUE” pilot in command time as legally, everything he did during these hours had to be under the direct supervision of a flying instructor.
#1613340
The regulation itself is pleasantly clear on this, albeit comprises 2 separate requirements for experience - pre-course and pre-test. Appendix 3 to Part-FCL states:

3. Before commencing the flight training the applicant shall:
(a) have completed 150 hours flight time;
(b) have complied with the prerequisites for the issue of a class or type rating for multi-engine aeroplanes in accordance with Subpart H, if a multi- engine aeroplane is to be used on the skill test.

It then goes on to state:

12. The applicant for a CPL(A) shall have completed at least 200 hours flight time, including at least:
(a) 100 hours as PIC, of which 20 hours of cross-country flight as PIC, which shall include a VFR cross-country flight of at least 540 km (300 NM), in the course of which full stop landings at two aerodromes different from the aerodrome of departure shall be made;
(b) 5 hours of flight time shall be completed at night, comprising 3 hours of dual instruction, which shall include at least 1 hour of cross-country navigation and 5 solo take-offs and 5 solo full stop landings; and
(c) 10 hours of instrument flight instruction, of which up to 5 hours may be instrument ground time in an FNPT I, or FNPT II or FFS. An applicant holding a course completion certificate for the Basic Instrument Flight Module shall be credited with up to 10 hours towards the required instrument instruction time. Hours done in a BITD shall not be credited;
(d) 6 hours of flight time shall be completed in a multi-engine aeroplane, if a multi-engine aeroplane is used for the skill test.

Given that the applicant for a CPL must be at least 18, the 17 year old new PPL holder would have a slight delay before commencing a 25 hour CPL course. An EASA compliant modular CPL course comprises 25 hours of instruction, of which 10 must be instrument instruction. Of these 10 up to 5 may be completed in a suitably approved instrument trainer, as per para (c) above. It is therefore possible for a CPL course to only add 20 hours rather than 25 to an individual's total time, which is worth factoring in to the overall plan - I've certainly tailored CPL courses reasonably neatly to make the most efficient use of someone's existing experience, and how close to 200 hours total time they are.

As regards the PIC time, PIC is PIC, irrespective of whether it is solo time flown under supervision during a PPL course or flown under licence privileges subsequent to a course. While it would be unusual for someone to build 100 hours PIC during a PPL course it would not, strictly speaking, be outside the regulation - in letter at least. It might not provide the best experience in spirit, since part of the reasoning behind the 100 hour PIC requirement is that the CPL student will have experience operating outside a supervised environment, ie scheduling their own flying, true command decisions, etc.
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